Ep 107 - These types of men will NOT make your orgasm & more w/ Elena Rossi

Your body already knows if a man is safe—are you listening to it?

Meg sits down with female libido specialist Elena Rossi to talk about the unspoken truth of women’s pleasure: safety is everything. If you’ve ever wondered why you can’t let go in the bedroom, why your libido is fading, or why some men just don’t do it for you—this episode will hit home.

Elena breaks down the 27 types of men women won’t orgasm with (yes, she made a list!) and how women confuse attraction with safety. They get into spiritual gaslighting, the illusion of conscious men, and why safety isn’t about muscles, words, or Instagram captions—it’s about how a man actually shows up.

Whether you're single, dating, or in a long-term relationship, this episode will change the way you think about sex, intimacy, and the kind of men you let into your body.

Meg and Elena also riff on:

• What is the purpose of sex in a relationship?
• Why so many women feel used in sex (and how to change it)
• The illusion of “safe” men and why attraction ≠ safety
• Why spiritual men aren’t always what they seem
• The 27 types of men women won’t orgasm with
• How resentment kills desire (and how to bring it back)
• Three areas of safety every woman needs to check
• The real reason your libido is disappearing

🔥 Connect with Elena Rossi:

Instagram: @elenarossiofficial_

Website: https://elenarossiofficial.com/

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#FemalePleasure #SafeLove #ConsciousRelationships #FeminineEnergy #IntimacyMatters #SexualEmpowerment #WomenDeserveSafety

Transcript

0:00

Well, it comes down to the question of what is the purpose of sex in your relationship. And for many people, the purpose is an orgasm. Is. You and I both nodded in. What about the pressure? Yeah. And especially for us women, if the sex is not even pleasurable or orgasmic for us, we end up feeling used because then the sex is just to get our partner off and literally get him off of us, right? Get that needy sexual energy off of us, at least for the next week or two. And sex becomes a chore. It's not something enjoyable. It's not a way to, build intimacy, to express your intimacy. I think a lot of couples, they use sex to feel more love. I always suggest feeling love and then sex being the outcome of that. Yo yo yo, lovers. Welcome, welcome, welcome to sex, love and everything in between. Where the O'Neals. You're here with Meg and Jacob. And this is the place we have really uncensored conversations about sex, intimacy, and relationships. We're super excited you're here. Enjoy this episode. Hello, my loves. Welcome back to sex, love and everything in between. We have an incredible guest with us today. I'm very excited about this conversation. We have the beautiful Elena Rossi here. Hello, beautiful. Everybody. Even before we begin, actually, I want to I want to share why I've chosen to have you on the podcast. I feel like I saw your work years ago in the space. And I probably only started following you in the last two years. But I adore you. Have such a strong voice in the space, and I really feel like you say the things that need to be said, but sometimes other people in the work are afraid to say. And I really feel in a world where there are so many sex coaches and sexologists and things these days, I feel like you really bring the conversation back to especially around female sexuality. What is, I truly believe, the core of female sexuality as well, which is safety. And I don't think there's enough of a conversation around this. And I'm just so grateful to you for being such a strong partner voice in this space. Yeah. So I'm excited to dive deep for today. But before we go any further, I just wanted to say thank you for that and I would love you to introduce yourself to to everyone listening. Well, thank you so much for having me. You rightfully point out, I, I always joke that I talk about an an unsexy things, and that's why it's the things that we don't want to look into. It's the things we don't want to work on because they're not sexy. They don't promise us the the pleasure and the orgasms and the happily ever after. And so people tend to gravitate towards, you know, surface level solutions, the quick pill solutions. And usually my clients and my audience finds me at the end of their journey where they're like, man, I've tried everything. It's still not working fine. I will listen to what you have to say and I will do the work. And so I'm white ish and I'm very different from most sex coaches, but I truly believe that. I talk about what really matters and I see changes. I see growth and transformation in my clients. And at the end of the day, that's what matters the most. I love that. To introduce myself I my name is Elena Rossi. I am a female libido specialist. I create online courses. I do one on one coaching and I also write books. I'm in the process of writing my third book right now and it's all about safety. So I'm really psyched to get that one going. I do bodywork, I work with body armoring practice at the somatic body work, where I help women release trauma and pain stuck emotions from the body. So I'm quite a multi-talented, a multitasker when it comes to my work. Thank you for being here. Like I said, I'm very excited for this conversation, and I took some notes. And one thing, just as I was, like, going through some of your content, one thing that really stood out to me, it was, I forget where you wrote it, but you said safety is the foundation of the female sexual experience. Yeah. And I just I love that so much. And I would like I would love you to speak deeper into that. Yeah, sure. So a lot of women misinterpret the concept of safety because we compare it to being scared or not scared. So when we're with a guy, we think, oh, well, I'm not scared of him. He's not a stranger. I've had sex with this guy, so I'm safe with him. But we don't realize that that safety works on a completely different level for example, the other day I had a client session, and she's telling me that she's having struggles to orgasm with this new guy she's dating. And I say, well, tell me about this guy. And she goes, oh, he's so safe. And she scrunches her shoulders as she starts talking to him. Like all this tension immediately comes into her body as she keeps scrunching her shoulders and goes, he's so safe. He's so safe. He's just so wonderful. And I say, well, tell me more. What makes him safe? And she pauses and she goes, well, I'm not really sure. And I go, well, let's keep talking about it. Tell me more. She goes, well, you know, he's so big and strong and he's got, you know, muscles. And he's like this big, strong bear and he's got a beard and he's just so, you know, so safe to be in his arms. And I thought, that's not safe. That's hot. Two very different things. As we continue talking about this guy, she tells me that they met three months ago in Bali. He is trying to force her into polyamory. He wants to take it easy and go with the flow. They're not really together. He calls her just for sex. He only wants to hang out when they're when there's sex involved. He's dating other women. He's flirting with other women. He's talking about how she could use to lose, like five kilos just to really look like a goddess. So this guy sounds so unsafe. He's not emotionally available. He's not present. He's leaking his sexual energy. He's not committed to her. He's not intentionally building a relationship with her. And yet she thinks that he's safe because she's got big muscles. Deeper into the conversation with her. And I ask her, well, tell me about the sex that you're having with him. And I find out that she is rushing herself to get aroused. She's faking orgasms. The first time she didn't have an orgasm he told her, well, all the other women have come with me. So what's wrong with you? Talk about unsafe, right? So she's creating a lot of unsafe for herself. She's self abandoning. She's pleasing him. She's not really being herself. She's not taking her time. She's not honoring her needs. She's not stepping up for her boundaries. So it's just one giant pile of unsafe. And to me, it's obvious why she's not having lovely orgasms with him. How many of us women have been in such. And I do air quotes relationships with such individuals, men and women completely and I, I just always think when you were talking about this man in Bali and like almost like the way so often years ago I wrote this post called like Dear Conscious Men and it was really about this. Like we didn't give a fuck about the like quote, David Data, all the things like, but what the fuck he thought. And I think so often some women can get blindsided by like, oh, like, I mean, he's like rose colored glasses on, like, oh, he's saying the right things. He like looks he's he's wearing spiritual clothing or he's like hanging out, you know, Buddha or like, whatever it is. And actually, it's like, he doesn't have to be a fucking spiritual man. He could be a trainee or like, you know, whatever. But that, that safety, just because he's doing yoga doesn't mean that he has, you know, he's he's bringing safety to the relationship. I call it spiritual gaslighting. And a lot of the men, especially in places like Bali, you know, this sort of pseudo spiritual spots, hotspots all over the world. They've learned the lingo. And so they've learned that if they talk about, you know, anxious or avoidant attachment or their childhood traumas, if they use all the right words, the women leave a date with them thinking, wow, he was so vulnerable. He's so self-aware, but really, he's just spiritually seducing you. And to make you feel and creating an illusion of safety. Yeah. And to me, the number one safety detecting method is safety is about someone's actions, not someone's words. So forget what the guy is saying. Look at how he's behaving. Look at how he's treating you. And also look at how he's treating other women, especially the women that he's not sexually attracted to. Because it's so easy for men to be super nice and lovely and charming around women. They want to fuck em. But how to treat women who he doesn't want to have sex with? Is he treating them with respect? How does he treat older women? How does he treat your, not so sexy girlfriend or your little sister? Is he avoiding them or patronizing them? Or is he treating them also with, you know, kindness and respect? Yes. I think like ten years ago, before I met my husband, I'd like just stepped into like the spiritual scene and I think I would have been so attracted to, like, if a man like that came into my world, I would have been so wrapped up in that. And I, I truly believe and I'd love to hear your perspective on this, that it's also about like, the more I've descended into my body and my pussy, the more discerning I have become. Oh, absolutely. I feel like this is such a powerful, peaceful women. It's like when we're. Yeah, when when we're kind of living in the surface level or when we're just looking at the surface. Right. We're going to be kind of roped into those kind of scenarios. But when we're rooted in our body and rooted in like, we can fucking taste the bullshit when we're rooted in our body. Yeah, but we don't trust it. Right? So, like, what is speaking to us, our bodies speaking to us? Our pussy's speaking to us, and we don't trust it. We sit there and we, you know, we have that brunch with our girlfriends and we're like, but one day you'll change your I can change and where he just needs more time. Meanwhile, you've got, you know, a pussy inflammation. If you have heart palpitations, your hair's falling out. All of a sudden you have acne. Your body is literally screaming at you. Dump the guy, and yet you think, oh, well, you know, I'll just, I'll change my skincare routine and I'll take some supplements and been there, done that. Yes. What would you say? Actually, there was a I think there was a Substack I saw that you wrote and it was around like the 27 types of guys you're not going to feel safe with or you shouldn't have sex with. Do you remember the one I'm talking about? It was something like that. Can you tell us the most? Like, almost like for the single women out there are women dating and, you know, looking, looking for relationships. So, you know, I would love for you to just, like, give us just a few of those that to look out for. So, in that article I talk about, I think it was 27 types of men that we won't orgasm with. Now, when I talk about we want orgasm with, I'm talking about long term pleasurable sex life. I'm not talking about that novelty phase where you don't really know each other and you, you know, you've got the pink glasses on and you've created this image of a man, the illusion. Maybe at the beginning you're still orgasming. But as you get to know the man as perhaps a relationship or a situationship develops, that's when the orgasms and the pleasure and eventually your whole libido begins to disappear. So those are the men I'm talking about. And some examples include, emotionally unavailable man, a fuckboy, a stingy man, a greedy man, a man who is dealing with a lot with his own stuff, who is not, present with you. A man who doesn't take his time to be there for you. He's just sort of using you for sex, or he's using you for your vibes and the fun and the cooking and all the interesting things he can do with you, but he isn't there to pick you up from the airport, help you fix your car, hold the space for you when you had a fight with your mother. So there's a whole list on my Substack of these kinds of men. And it's funny you mention that article. It's the most popular article on my Substack. I love that one evening, I was just going to say at the beginning of the relationship, we still think, oh, he will change, right? I've told myself this like, so much. Like, oh, he will learn to love. I just need to show him what romance is. I just need to show him how easy it is to care for someone. But all that happens is slowly your libido is being eroded, your mental health is being eroded, and the guy ain't changing. Completely. And I feel, I feel there's a lot of women that listen to our podcast that are in relationships too. So I'd love to speak into that as well. And I think that was I going to go with that so much baby brain these days. I was I going to go with that. Yeah. Yeah. So if someone, if someone is feeling a sense of, oh, my partner's not really, showing up in those ways in our relationship, and they're feeling, you know, their libido being eroded. What would you say to a woman? Where to? From their. I think what's really important for women is to get their safety boundaries really clear, like, what is safety to you? In one of my courses, it's the honey, honey I'm Coming online course. I talk about the concept of safety talk. So instead of dirty talk, we have safety talk with our partner. And my partner and I use safety talk all day, every day. It's almost it's almost become a joke now because every time he does something that makes me feel safe, I say it. And it's this kind of little playfulness like, oh my God, baby, that made me feel so safer. Oh, it feels safe right now. Safety everywhere. We even use a special emoji. We have. And he does safety back to me because safety is important for everybody. It's just for men. It's not connected to their sexuality so much. And so what one thing I realize is the things that make him feel safe are very different from what makes me feel safe. The more I bring up the safety conversation with my girlfriends or my clients, everyone has very different safety needs and safety boundaries. And so you've got to start talking about it, share about it, what makes you feel safe constantly, over and over again, and then to see if the man shows up and actually creates a safety for you. Yes. And I feel sometimes when women start to, you know, be a part of this kind of conversation, maybe it's just thought about in the realm of the bedroom, like, okay, maybe he pressures me to orgasm or I'm feeling he goes too quickly. But the safety conversation isn't just in the realm of the bedroom or when you're having sex. It is the entire relationship, right? It's 70% women. So think of safety is like you've got a container in your relationship, and every single thing that you do is either pouring safety into the container or it's pouring safety out. And none of us are perfect. I'm not, you know, creating this propaganda like we have to be safe all the time. That's not realistic. And even well-meaning people will create lack of safety just accidentally. But having being able to be honest about that, being able to notice that in your body, in your heart, and sharing that in the moment is really important. I'll give you a very subtle example, and I dive into them in all my courses, too. A few months ago, it was, I think it was like a Sunday brunch. And my partner and I, we have this thing, we cook something new every Sunday, and the Sunday was my time to cook. And I've prepared this beautiful meal. I tell him, babe, time for dinner. Time for lunch. Please sit at the table. He sits at the table. I mean, like a beautiful table arrangement. I served the food. It was this like beef stew. And as I put the plates on the table, he's on his phone texting somebody or typing something, and I still rummage around in the kitchen, maybe like I bring some salt on the table. I sit down, he's still on his phone. I sit down, I take a look at him. I take a deep breath. He's still typing. Everything in my system is going unsafe, unsafe, unsafe. I just felt uncomfortable. Why? Because my man is not present with me right here, right now. I made this meal, right, I served it, it's getting cold. And then he's on his phone. And of course, the crazy girl brain goes, oh my God, who is exactly what she did. He doesn't love me. And all of this is happening in just a few seconds. Now I have a choice. I can speak up, or I can sit there and read resentment and pretend like I don't care. So I speak up. I said, baby, the food is getting cold. Can you put your phone down? And he goes, oh, honey, I'm so sorry. It's Mother's Day. I'm just quickly typing my mom a message. So that by the time she wakes up, she sees something from me. And as she said that immediately I feel safe, relaxed. You know, my shoulders go down. I think, oh, of course. Take your time. Send a hello from me. The stew can wait. Such a subtle example of here I am within a few seconds feeling really uncomfortable and unsafe, unseen, unloved. And all it took was for me to speak up, for him to reaffirm. And there's no problem anymore. Yes, I felt that in my own body when you said that he said the Mother's Day thing, I was like, oh yeah. And I, I know I hear about Mother's Day, you know? So. And I feel the need to hit my brain. I feel the peace around. Speaking up is so important. Like, I used to be the kind of woman that would, you know, hold and braid resentment in my body. I didn't use my voice in relationships or in the early part of my relationship. And I also even in my own body and in my work with clients, how much when we're holding resentment in our body, of course, we don't necessarily want to fuck our partner, right? I think that's the first thing to look at, right? If you're feeling like not connected or like, yeah, if you're not feeling that strong libido anymore, it's like, where what are you holding? What conversations are you not saying? When did you not use your voice? What are you not speaking into? And I think this is such a piece. You had to be able, like, I just love the story you've just brought up because it's. This has been the deepest practice in my own partnership, you know, for years. It's like being the woman that says the thing there in the moment when the when the heart is hurt, when the ouch is there, it's like bringing, not bringing that in the moment, not then sitting there for dinner, holding resentment is connecting, building a wall like obviously that is then going to lead into like that lives in our body, that lives in the relational field. Because then you start being resentful. You become maybe passive aggressive, you become snarky. So it's like this. How do you say it in English? Like a snowball going down the hill, getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And so by the end of the night or the weekend, you're now in a fight. Zero desire for sex. Meanwhile, he was just writing a work email or, you know, I don't know, maybe he was buying something. He need to go through all the steps of, you know, clicking buy and putting in his credit card details. It's not a big deal, but in our head, we create this fantasy of it being something that's against us, right? And then we breed and live in that. We're kind of it creates all this mold inside our nervous system when it could have been fixed within just one second. And now think of the entire day, the entire week, the entire month and years that you don't speak up, or when he doesn't speak up and you're just living in this like, festering pool of unsafe tea together. Yeah. And then expecting to go into the bedroom at night and be able to feel desire and like, want to have sex with each other. Yeah. Which a man can do. We cannot. It doesn't work completely. And then I think it and I would love to hear your, your thoughts on this then I think it breeds the feeling so many of my clients come to me with. Like, I'm broken. Like they feel like, oh, I can live this way. And I should be able to want to fuck my husband when I get into the bedroom. It's like, of course not. And if there isn't, it isn't. If there isn't, you know, safety in other. It's not just her not speaking up, but if there is an element of safety in the relationship, I feel like there is then this, this feeling. A lot of women immediately just go to themselves, like, what's wrong with me? What's wrong with me? Yeah, yeah. I teach that there's three places that women need to take care of safety in their life. Number one is within ourselves. It's not just up to the guy because we're not little babies that need to be, you know, taken care off. We're a grown ass women. Number one is you have to create safety for yourself, and that means your mental health. Being aware of that inner critic, working through your traumas, your insecurities, understanding your attraction patterns. For example, if you are choosing to love and wake up next to a narcissist every morning, that's your responsibility. That's you being safe with yourself, right? If you're constantly criticizing yourself, I'm fat, I'm ugly, I'm lovable. But that's you being a shitty friend to yourself. So, number one, safety within yourself. This is where inner work coaching, somatic body work, plant ceremonies, all of that comes in therapy. Place number two is within the relationship. Safety must be created, co-created every day for the rest of your life. A lot of men think, oh, just because I put a ring on your finger that now you're safe. Like, this is every day, every minute of the day. And the third place is your environment. The other day, I had a client session, and she and her husband are from Ukraine. And they fled Ukraine for obvious reasons. And they came to the Netherlands. She they both left their jobs. Their families just packed up a few suitcases, moved to the Netherlands. He got a job immediately. And she cannot because she doesn't speak any English or Dutch. So she went from having a beautiful social life in Ukraine with friends, family, a lovely career in marketing to sitting at home all day watching Netflix, not knowing what to do. She feels like a loser. She feels like unsure about the future. She's bored out of her mind. She's eating cookies all day and so her environment is really unsafe for her. She doesn't know what's going to be next that has showed up in her sex life because she reached out to me going, I don't want to have sex anymore. I'm never in the mood. And I said, well, hell yeah, you just fled a war zone, came into a new country where you have no support network, no friends, no money. You're relying fully on your husband. Of course, there is no safety in your environment, and that's affecting your sex life. So three places we need to. I call it sex. Safety detectives. We need to constantly be aware of what's going on. Where am I safe? Where am I unsafe, and what changes do I have the power to, and what changes do I need to ask my partner to make? What are maybe some family members I shouldn't really be in contact with anymore? Perhaps your environment of I don't know. Living in Bali isn't creating a lot of safety for you, so creating that awareness is step number one. And there's three areas with South the, the relationship. And then the third one was environment. Yeah. So your environment. Yeah. Is your work your social circles, your family, the town that you live in, perhaps the country that you live in, the political situation in your country, even the climate, for example, I'm really affected by the Dutch winters. Amsterdam is my home. So I flee to Bali almost every single year because I'm affected by the darkness, by the rain, by the cold. It totally ruins my mood and it ruins my libido in a way. If I had a cute little house with, you know, like, a fireplace might be different, but I don't have a fireplace. So I throw. I just circling back to what you said at the beginning. How? Like your work, you're not. You don't do the quick fix. And I think in just what you said, that shows like so many even for for people in like long term partnership. I think as a culture collective, we think, oh, you're not having sex. I go to the sex shop, buy like a bondage kit or like, you know, get a whipple. And, you know, those things can be really fun. They can be really fun. But if there's if there's bodies full of resentment and if there's a lack of safety, that's not going to do shit. And but it takes, you know, an hour to go to the sex shop and buy those things. It takes, you know, a much longer period of time to attend to the safety in the body, the safety in the relationship, the safety in the environment. Right. And for the coaches of sexuality, it's very easy to take a photo of a vibrator or take a photo of new lingerie, take a sexy photo with their partner and post that on social media. It's very hard to take a photo of safety or take a photo of genuine connection. Taking a photo or a video of intimacy. Right? So this message is it's hard to, send out to the world. And because we're on Instagram and we're not there to actually really learn, we're just scrolling someone who is in some sexy bondage outfit gets more attention, more likes, and more interest from potential people. Rather than me writing a post on how safety is the foundation of female experience. Yeah, I feel you there was a place I wanted to go then why did I want to go. I think even, even just in my experience like lately, like I'm, I'm a new mother. My, my son is four months old, not having near as much sex as we were, you know, pre-baby. And something I've realized. And I already knew this about myself, but for me, I value intimacy and connection over, like, penetration or just, like, you know, sex. And. Congratulations. You are a woman. Yeah, right. And I think there is sometimes I think I was very it was very liberating for me as a woman to realize that about myself and to understand and these pieces of female sexuality. I think it there was like a relief in me to know, like, oh, especially that my sexuality was different and the way that I got aroused was different to my partner. And like, if he was ready and he had an erection like, oh, I oh, okay. Like, oh, and if I'm not ready, I must be broken or there must be something wrong with me. And I'm curious, is that do a lot of women come to you with that same kind of feeling? And is that is that something you work on with women as well? This is the experience of 100% of women. Yeah, 100%. And I think because we've been gaslit by the feminist movement to believe that we're exactly the same. And I think this really has been a massive disservice to us because we're not the same. I think, I think the feminist movement should have been fighting for safety and not equality. And really it's not equality. It's, it's like the feminist movement has been fighting for sameness, as if in order to be equal to men, we have to be exactly the same, rather than bringing our own talents and insights and innate qualities to the table. It's like one plus one equals two. Beautiful. But we've been told like, no, you have to be exactly like a man in order to have the same rights. And I think that's been a big fail on the feminist movement on that part. Yeah. Because now we walk around comparing ourselves to our male partners and feeling like. And because we're failing ultimately, and being men, we cannot be men will never be men. We blame ourselves rather than realizing, actually, I'm a woman and I'm different and there's a beauty in that. Yes, that's where would you for a woman that's in relationship right now and is listening to this conversation is like, okay, I'm realizing I need more safety in my relationship, right? I'm not. Oh, well, thumbs up. I'm. Yeah, I'm I'm requiring more safety in my relationship. I'm realizing that's important. I'm realizing I'm, you know, my sexuality, my arousal is different to my male partner, but I've never actually honored that or been honoring that. I don't think he honors that within me. Where would you invite this kind of woman to begin, you know, within herself? But also, what kind of conversations would you be inviting her to to begin to bring into the partnership? So I would invite her to first educate herself on the concept of safety. So come to me, buy an online course, work with me. I often recommend a lot of books. Follow my Substack. It's free. Just start learning about the concept of safety and how it's connected to our libido, our pleasure and our orgasms. Because in order to communicate with your partner, you really need to be clear on what is it that you're communicating. Number two, bring out the safety talk in your relationship. Actually talk about the things that matter and stand up for your needs. So for example you know when you're with a man, especially if it's like a new guy you're sleeping with and he's like tell me what you want right now babe. And then freeze. Like we all know what we want. And then we start kind of like saying something that maybe we've heard in pornography, like, oh, like a kiss my neck or like, grabbed me here. But the reason we don't know is because we don't actually need him to rub us or kiss us. We probably just need him to back the fuck off and give us the time and the space to arouse, to land in our body, to connect with him. When we ultimately want the man to do is maybe hold us. Stop kissing us like crazy. Fucking slow down. Right? Take his time. But to say that doesn't sound very sexy and hot, does it? It sounds like we're. We feel like we're needy or we're boring. We're, you know, high maintenance. This is where you need to start doing your inner work so that you can be proud and safe within yourself to say, you know what? Actually, can we just slow down? I just want you to connect with me. Can we can we snuggle first, you know? Yes. Don't touch my pussy until I invite you to. Yes. Right. And then actually honor that, you know, don't invite him because you feel like now is the time that he needs to do it, but rather wait until you're burning with desire to be touch. There. For most women, it doesn't happen until 45 minutes into being sexual. But how many of us go, oh yeah, touch me. They're within five ten minutes. And how much then? And I, speaking from my own experience and also client to how much pleasure is performative then it's not even pleasure. It's just performance. Like it's that like I'm, I must you know, we're making sounds. We're like, you know, doing things because it's not we're feeling, you know, it's static pleasure in the body. It's just like, oh, this is what this is what he wants. This is what I should be doing right now. There's not actually a connection to, you know, the pleasure that that I have to have time to unfold in the body and this pressure that we put on ourselves to, I would say go all the way in sex. So when you start being sexual with your man, I don't know, you were watching Netflix, you're on the couch, you're in the bedroom. The pressure you put on yourself to have the oral sex and have the penetration and to orgasm as well, rather than going, you know what, let's just begin and see where it takes us and maybe just ends up in a naked snuggle. Maybe we like pleasure each other's genitals a little bit and go to bed, or maybe ends up in penetrative sex. And how many of us put the pressure to do all of it like in the perfect porn movie? Yes. And then like you said, it ends up a performance, it ends up being rushed and faked. And of course the next day you wake up and you think, man, I hope I don't have to do this for the next two weeks. I'm just thinking of like in my, in my marriage, I'm the one that can be a bit more goal oriented than my husband. Like I'm the one that sometimes even when we're not having a lot of sex, I'm the one that's kind of any of my work too. I think it's a part of me that's like, oh, I'm, you know, this is part of my work. I should be having sex. And, you know, the just the stories that I make up. But it is the deepest gift, even if we're in a sexual experience. And he can feel my own kind of, like, pressure or my own part of me that wants to go to a certain place, just like the deepest gift to me is when he's like, hey, we don't have to get anywhere. Hey, actually, stop. I'm just going to hold you. And he he say, even we've got like now obviously with with a baby it's we can't just go like my turned out like this. We've got a baby and we're co-sleeping and all the things and babies are always there. But we've, we've booked in, like, on Thursday night to our intimacy practice. And the other week, you know, part of me thought, you know, he was the baby was down. We're going to come into the room. It's going to be hot and steamy. And he was just like, lay in my arms. And I just, like, lay back and just burst into tears. And it was the most, you know, then it turned into just like the most beautiful lovemaking session. But yeah, I think even sometimes, and I'm very blessed to have a partner that almost like, sees, you know, we've, we've we've known the importance of safety for a while. But sometimes he can advocate for my safety more than I advocate for my the need for safety and yeah, I think it's just such a, such a necessary beautiful thing. And I feel like as women too. And I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. For me, a huge part of like feeling more alive in my my in sex with my with my husband was actually like, broadening the definition of sex and not just thinking like sex always has to just be pleasure. Like I'm allowed to cry and I'm allowed to feel like contractions sometimes and stop and have a conversation and be like, I'm suddenly not feeling safe for all these things coming up for me. And I think I used to just think, oh, no, only pleasure is, well, come in. And we're only allowed to feel hot and steamy and nothing else is welcome. And when I fucked off that belief and let it be a space for it all. Oh my gosh. Yeah, well, it comes down to the question of what is the purpose of sex in your relationship? And for many people, the purpose is an orgasm is. You and I both nodded. What about the pressure? Yeah. And especially for us women, if the sex is not even pleasurable or orgasmic for us, we end up feeling used because then the sex is just to get our partner off and literally get him off of us, right? Get that needy sexual energy off of us, at least for the next week or two, and sex becomes a chore. It's not something enjoyable. It's not a way to, build intimacy, to express your intimacy. I think a lot of couples that use sex to feel more love. I always suggest feeling love and then sex being the outcome of that. Yes yes yes yes yes. You know, people try to use such as the glue that holds them together rather than just being together, genuinely enjoying yourself as friends, as co-parents, as partners, as business partners, as besties. And then sex becomes a beautiful outcome of that connection between you guys is just a way to express that connection and intimacy, rather than to create it. Yes, 1,000% agree. I'm going to kind of take the conversation somewhere else. But I had in one of my notes and I can't remember the post you wrote, but you wrote something about vibrators. I'd love you to speak into your belief around vibrators. What you have to say around vibrators. Okay. How long do we have? I love a good rant, so give us your give us your vibrator rant. Listen, vibrators are like like junk food. If you eat it once in a while, it's fine, right? If your body strong enough, it will go like, well, now you just put a bunch of shit on me, but it's fine. I'll handle ill digested and poop it out. And you had a good time, you know? But if it's something that you are eating every single day, then eventually your body is going to start rebelling, right? With symptoms and pains and aches. It's the same with vibrators once in a while. Have your fun. Enjoy it. But the reality of what's happening is something that no one is talking about is that vibrators become a crutch. You become addicted to them because you cannot orgasm without them. Now, a lot of sex coaches are being paid by vibrator companies, so it's their job to promote the toys because it's their livelihood. They're paying their rent and supporting their families. With that. So you don't hear many coaches discussing the dark side of relying on vibrators. The thing that vibrators do is they allow you to orgasm without being aroused, so you skip the very must have important part of sex as a woman is being aroused, being body, being relaxed, feeling safe, feeling the arousal on all of your body. Feeling that desire for your man. You don't need any of that when you're with a vibrator. And so that's your habit. If you were using a vibrator, I used to use a vibrator every day back in my 20s. You just kind of have that quick buzz on your clit. You have your orgasm when you're ready to go and begin, you know, start your day or whatever, or go to sleep. You try to recreate the same thing with a man and you cannot. And you start feeling like a failure, but you're not the failure. Sex just doesn't work that way. And no partner will ever match the vibrator. So ultimately the vibrator is I know I've used this word many times today, but it's it's gaslighting you into pleasure. And a lot of coaches online will sell you this idea like, oh, vibrators. And it's self pleasuring and loving yourself and exploring yourself. But the reality is we're not there for an hour with a vibrator. We're there for five minutes. We're not pleasuring. You're getting yourself off in five minutes. Like no one can handle a vibrator on your clit for an hour. No way. So it's a quick thing. It's like having a cigaret. You just puff, you know, you get your attention, release, you get your orgasm, you go on with your day. So it's not this magnetic, incredible, wonderful, luscious practice that the vibrator industry is trying to sell you on. The quick buzz. You're probably wearing your sweat pants. There's mustard stains all over them. We're just you're, you know, you've got 20 tabs of porn open on your laptop, and you're just buzzing your clit and thinking about what you're going to order on over each, like self-pleasure. Yeah, hashtag goddess mode. We're all too embarrassed to admit it. I'm totally, I love what you said around. Like, it bypasses, like, the arousal. Like. Yeah, it's it's it's bypassing what it takes for us to to like, be. And I know in my experience with using vibrators, it's like I didn't have to be in my body. And I know whether it's like self-pleasure or partnered sex, if there's a motion in my body and I and, you know, I and I drop into my body, I need to feel that I can't I can't bypass anything that exists in my body when I'm like, you know, not using a vibrator when I'm like, you can't bypass the lack of safety, all of those kind of pieces, you're going to feel that where with a vibrator, it's yeah, it's a yeah, you don't have to acknowledge all of those pieces or feel what's really that be felt. Yeah. It's like a really great and I say great an air quotes distraction for what's actually going on. So the fact that you're not really safe, you're not actually relaxed, you're not turned on, you don't really want to be doing this, and you don't really want to be with this guy, or he's annoying you, or you are resentful because he was on his phone all day, even though he was messaging his mother. So when you turn on the vibrator and you put that high intensity on your clitoris, it's such a great distraction for what's really going on. Yes, yes. But after a while you get to the point where you would rather just use a vibrator in the shower for five minutes than have sex and use the vibrator together with your partner. And I compare vibrators in pornography. So to me I love how you use the word bypass. That's a fantastic word. So but the vibrator does, is it like you said bypasses the arousal state for women. Porn does that for men. So it would bypasses them being in their body in their heart also being embodied present calm. Right. You turn on that porn tab, grab your dick, and then you're ready to go because you have this high intensity of sex stimulating your brain. And then when you're doing that from an early teenage hood, as a young boy, you bring that habit, that habit of decades into sex with a woman, right? You're rushing. You're not present. You're not emotionally available. And then you wonder, like, why women fake orgasms? Why? Because that's not sex. For us, that's not enjoyable. It's just a bunch of anxiety rubbing completely. So then take a moment. Who watches a bunch of porn? Take a modern woman who's got a bunch of vibrators. You put them together to have sex and you wonder why it. Modern couples are really struggling in the bedroom. Yes, yes yes yes. And your thought even even just like bringing those two conversation together around like safety. I feel like for and in my experience as well, for a man to be able to, provide a woman safety, especially in the bed in any moment, but especially in the bedroom for me, I believe it takes attunement. And if a man is, you know, all his sexual experiences or, you know, masturbation is surrounded by point that takes no level of attunement, you don't have to attune to what the woman in the, you know, the porno is doing or anything. There's no level of attunement to, you know, his own body. It's just. Yes, totally. And I feel I feel like a you go, no, no, no, you go. I'm interested what you have to say. I was just going to say I feel like attunement is what most women I know that that's something I deeply crave. And that's something my partner wasn't. We've been together ten years now. We were in our early 20s when we got together. Not much attunement. But he learned the skill of attunement over time. And so for any woman out there, I think it's really beautiful to know that, you know, if we're in a long term partnership and we're not receiving that from a partner right now, it's not as if it's just like, okay, game over. See you find someone else. A partner can like learn these type of skills. But we have to really advocate for ourselves that that's, you know, that's what it's a requirement of our safety and that's what's what's really. Yeah. What we're really needing and desiring. The beautiful thing about men is that, you know, we're all conditioned, right? We're all brainwashed. And so the difference between men and women is that they at least get an orgasm out of this shitty sex that we're all having. We don't. But I'll tell you a story. When I met my partner, we met while both traveling through Mexico. We had our first date, and the next day I flew back home to Amsterdam and we were apart for the next four months. We didn't see each other, but we chatted every day and at some point, me being me, I was like, well, let me bring up the conversation on sex. Like I'm trying to get to know this man more. And at some point I said, well, I prefer to have sex with my guy for 3 or 4 hours at a time. And I found this out a year into our relationship. At the time when I said this, he thought what I meant was that he needs to have an erection for 3 to 4 hours and bang me nonstop. And when I said it, he he got so insecure. He was like, My God, this is what like the tantric sex specialists do. Like I'm just like this average guy. I could never do this. So he was really in his head about the whole thing. But what I meant by 3 to 4 hours was not penetration. I meant sexual intimacy. I meant I want to cuddle for the first 25 minutes. I want to connect. I want to, like, make a couple of jokes and giggle about something. Kiss. I want to stroke. I want to gently take our clothes and cuddle some more. Right? I went all the humping and grinding and licking and sucking and taking a break and going to the fridge to get some fruits and taking a water break. Right. And then like sharing something for what happened earlier on because it's laying heavy and I just need to get it out of my system. Right. I'm talking about 3 to 4 hours of sexually and essentially connecting with a man not being penetrated by him. And my partner has never had an opportunity to even do that with a woman because his experience until he met me was this kind of pornographic sex, not because he wanted it, but because he said, this is what women do. They sort of you girls just sort of go like, okay, penetrate me now. Like, oh, and you guys perform and then you want us to come fast and get it done and over with him. He said, it's very confusing. And what is it that women actually want? And so fast forward to the time he, came to Amsterdam. We started dating and eventually we had the sex. We didn't even have penetrative sex on the first time. And I lay in the bed after going, My God, I'm like, I knew you were a fantastic lover. Like, I had a feeling this was amazing. Sex. And he looks at me. He goes, but we didn't have sex. I said, what do you mean, babe? He goes, well, I didn't penetrate you. So even his idea, what you mentioned earlier of what sex is, was so limited, he thought it was penis inside of a vagina. And that's when he brought up the conversation. He was like, oh, now, like, you know, six months ago, you mentioned 3 to 4 hours, and we just did it now. But I just realized that next, like, that's what I meant. I love this so much. You go the the point I'm making is men are so confused by all the pornography. And they're also confused by our pornographic, performative actions as well. So there is a lot of men in this world who love the slow, gentle, playful intimacy. They love to take their time. They don't need to penetrate you. They don't need to fuck you. But they don't even know that there's an opportunity for that. Because they're used to having sex with us women who put on that performance, you know. So it's like both partners feel so unsafe with each other that both are performing. Meanwhile both humans or just human right are yearning to take their time and connect. If someone was listening to this episode and going oh my gosh, I'm in that dynamic right now with my lover or my partner, what would you suggest. Use your mouth, open it and start talking. Right. And that can be the I also believe, it can be even more vulnerable for people that have been in a relationship for a very long time and fucking the same way. You know, maybe it's just like, it's like very robotic, very just like go through the motions once a week or whatever it is. I've, I've seen this with many clients I've worked with that that can even feel even more vulnerable because it's like this fear of like, oh, if I open my mouth and I say that, you know, I desire more safety or I want something different, oh my gosh, they're going to think that the last ten years of having sex I haven't enjoyed, which maybe the truth and these things absolute. It's it's the only way. Right. There's no easy there's no easy way through. It's probably going to take a lot of courage to have that conversation. It might be uncomfortable, it might be awkward, but it's it's not going stop waiting for the easy moment that the truth hurts, but it will set you free because you might find out that partner is actually never going to change. Doesn't give a shit about safety, doesn't really care about you, and doesn't, you know, it just he just likes what he has, and he would rather go and be with another woman and start the whole process with her again. Eventually her libido will disappear to. And he will just blame women. Or he has an opportunity to grow. So you guys both have an opportunity to grow together more. You guys will eventually grow apart. Yeah. I, I'm currently seeing I'm working on my next online course, and it's about three easy practices that I haven't decided what the title will be, but like three Practices of Fantastic Lovers. So I'm going to share one with you because to me, it's so simple and it's incredibly helpful to women. And I call it the naked snuggle. So usually when a couple starts having sex, we as women are already like, oh man, I have to get around. I have to get wet. We're already in our head right before we even go to the bedroom. We're not in our body. We're still thinking about the fight we had with our girlfriend earlier on, and that Janet from the marketing department pissed off at work and still can smell the aroma of baby diapers or whatever, so we're not even in the mood. And so to go from all of that into hot, penetrative, you know, multi-organ next states is really hard. I always suggest, and this is what I do. And every time we have sex, 99% of the time is get into bed. Do not force yourself to get aroused or hot or put on that performance, but just get naked and snuggle for 25 minutes. That's it. Minimal talking. If you're going to talk, talk about your feelings for each other. Perhaps genuine compliments for one another, maybe like planning your future together. Don't talk about the baby. Don't talk about accounting. Don't talk about dinner. Talk about your connection in your relationship, or just hold each other in a naked embrace lightly. Can caress each other a very minimal kiss. Kissing. But what this does is it allows a woman especially to sink into her body. For all of those thoughts, from work to slowly dissolve from her, to start feeling safe because you're not rushed. You don't have to rip off your clothes in a sexy way. You don't have to get wet immediately. You're just calming down, calming into your body, relaxing, connecting with your man, looking at each other, and then 25 minutes meeting minimum. Sometimes I say 45 minutes, and only then you can just start kissing and touching and caressing. Now most people will tell you, well, we don't have time for that. And I say, this is why your sex life sucks. I remember you saying I was just going to say I could feel that in my body, just like I was getting buzzing and I could feel my belly and pussy soften. And I'm sure other women like listening to you express that could feel that too. And that too. Yeah. That that opening and I don't yeah. It's, it's that softening and relaxing that creates the deepest orgasms. Right. The multi orgasmic states. It's not forcing. It's not pressuring. It's not pushing those out. It's it's it's resting into our body. It's resting into resting into the orgasm. To me this is the best foreplay ever. The actual foreplay in bed of course four plays 24 hours a day. But as men have been taught that foreplay is rubbing her pussy, rubbing her nipples, kissing her neck. But that's just put so much pressure. It's too much intensity in our body. Rather take it slow and trust the process. Right? Do it a few times. Calm down. Take 25 minutes to just lie and be together. You will be amazed on what that does for your arousal and what that does to your pleasure and orgasms. And you might actually find out the truth that you don't really want to be present with this man. That also happens, that you're not really wanting to connect with him. And that's a powerful realization and a game changer to any woman. Painful one, but a game changer. Yeah. That you would rather go through the motions and the rubbing and the kissing and the moving and the changing of positions just to get it over with. But when it comes to actual intimacy and being together, this is not your man. You don't want this man to be your man. And circling back to just the beginning, what you said you teach a lot of like, the unsexy things that lead to intimacy. And, you know, I think orgasms, and like, this is confronting, right? We're going to either be confronted with, you know, our numbness or our own, you know, anything that's existing in our own body, but also in, in the relationship that if we're choosing this way of being with, there's no avoiding that stuff anymore. Yeah. So the practices, all the practices that I teach are not quote like you said, sexy. They're not obvious. And that's why many people are mistrusting and yet they provide the most incredible results. It's almost counterintuitive because we've been brainwashed to believe that sex and sexuality is all about this kind of pornographic behavior. Yeah. And those pieces can be fun if you it's telling me I've got to you still hear me properly. You froze there for a second but you're back now. Yeah. Awesome. And I think those things can be fun, like the, you know, the, the tying up and all those things. But like we said before, if the other stuff like the all the things you're talking about is the actual foundation, like, that's the first fucking step, all the other shit's just going to be a band aid for that. If, you know, if that, if that's not really anchored in, in our bodies and in the relationship. So I think this work in the work you do is just so important and so integral. And I'm just so grateful for your voice in the space to it's it's like I'll bring back the example of fast food. It's like if you have a really shitty diet and then you take supplements times, it's not really going to help you. So. So if you have zero foundation of trust, safe intimacy, relaxation and turn on and connection, then getting tied up once in a while, or doing a role play or watching a sexy film together bring bringing toys. Yeah, it won't really solve any deep rooted issues in your relationship. It will be fun. But like okay, sure, you played the sexy nurse, but like, do you really want to do that the next day? Again? You know, most couples they end up doing, they start desperately grasping for these short term solutions. So it's like, okay, today you were a sexy nurse. Alright, tomorrow you can be a sexy teacher. It's like, oh fuck, man. Like, I don't want to do this. Okay, let's have a threesome. Okay? You had one threesome. Let's have a foursome like, eventually you run out of all the fantasies and you have a whole life to live, right? If you're in a monogamous relationship for the next 50 years together, there's not enough fantasies to keep you afloat. You have to go back to the basics. And the basics are intuitive and feel boring until you start practicing them. And then you see the results and the results speak for themselves. I want to bring one last thing in before we close up. And I think it's kind of related to that for single women listening. Would you, you know, would you agree that maybe a man that is going to be this to create safety might feel boring to some women that might not feel like then it's not the kind of men that are going to necessarily have that like yeah. Is there potentially going to be a feeling of like it is safe to feel boring? I think that's what I'm trying to say for women. And this used to be me who have a lot of unprocessed trauma, who grew up in high intensity environments, very emotional environments or emotionally unavailable environments or abusive environments. Safety does feel boring. So if you're someone who's struggling, you say, My God, there's no good men and all men are assholes. No, not all men are assholes. You are attracted to the assholes, you are drawn to them and all the good guys that come across your life. You're probably friends owning them. Or you're just leaving that day going if it's so boring. So again, it comes back to doing your own inner work and making sure that you're dating from a healed place. That you're not carrying all of your wounding and all of your baggage, and bringing that on those first dates that you know, that you were attracted to a healthy man and a healthy relationship rather than chasing, you know, the narcissists and the unavailable men. That used to be me, for sure. Yes, totally. Well, thank you so much. This has been such an incredible conversation. I've loved it. I know everyone listening would have loved it too. Can you tell the people listening where to find you, how to get involved in your work? Because I'm sure they're gonna want to run over and and do that. You can find me on Elena Rossi official underscore on Instagram. That's probably my most active platform. You can also find me on Elena Rossi official.com on my website. I have online courses about this. I dive into much, much more detail about every subject, and what I love about the courses that I create this little community. So everyone is sharing vulnerably within the course. And I love answering every comment. And, you know, we kind of master plan and mastermind all the issues, inquires in the questions inside the courses. I've written two books already. You can DM me. And if you want to do online coaching, you can email me or DM me and I'll send you my offers on body work and online coaching as well. So lots of things. Don't be shy to reach out. For some reason, the feedback I get is people like, oh, I've been collecting the courage to message you for a year and I'm like, please message me. I love it, I love it. Actually, I'm more shy than you realize. I'm a complete introvert, so please make me. I'm there. Even if you have a want a question, or I can always suggest a book or another online course or something for you to think about. I love connecting with women and being of service, so message me. Don't be shy. And before we close up, any final pieces? Any any other pieces you want to bring? Oh, I feel like we've covered it. We did cover. Do you want me to leave you with, like, a banger? Yeah. Always. Always. Please. This might get us going for another half an hour. I have this radical practice for new parents that when a couple leave, I suggest that they don't have penetrative sex for at least one year. That they take that pressure off the woman for one year. And so good. So that gives the woman time to heal, come back into her body, recover. And this gives an opportunity for the man to really do his inner work in that time, to connect to his true sexuality and learn to create safety and intimacy in your sex life without the penetrative pornographic banging. I love that a lot. And just as a mother, it's it's more me. But it's also for me. Even though I've been in this world for a long time, there's still the part of me that equates sex to penetration and thinking that like, almost like. And I think it's the inner high achiever in me that's almost like wanting to tick it off, which I know is wild and like. But sometimes she just gets in the, in the, you know, in the driver's seat. And so I love that practice because I think it will it would take the pressure off me to think, oh my gosh, I'm, I'm failing at life. If I haven't ticked this box this week or in the fortnight. So I, I love that practice so much. Yeah. So you can enjoy doing whatever you guys want but take the penetration off the table. It what it does is it gives the woman the time and the safety and the relaxation to just heal. And then of course, if you are a woman who wants penetration, enjoy it, but you don't have to and you get to enjoy all the struggles and all the kisses and all the licking and all the sucking and all the playfulness, without putting the pressure on yourself to be super aroused because you are a new mom. Because you're tired, because you're overwhelmed, because you've been changing nappies all day and so yeah, I'm already feeling like the turn on of like, not having penetrative sex and then like the lead out, like it all has to be a yeah, just like the turn on and the excitement and the like. Yeah. Just like the desire and the wanting. That would be so alive. I hope I don't get any, like, hate from husbands or like, my wife made me listen to this podcast. I would take you. To see you wait for me. But here's the thing. The reason I do this also is because in that year, because the woman doesn't feel pressured, there's no resentment growing. Right? So you come out of that here craving and desiring your man, having built a beautiful connection together rather than coming out of that year, being pissed off, annoyed, and with zero libido because so much this happens, right? For women, they have a baby. The pressure is the same on sex. And then there's just like, no more sex a year later. Yeah, because you just can't. I mean, and how can we the pressure that we put on women, it's like you have a child hanging on your nipple. The last thing you want at the end of the day is your husband hanging on the same nipple. And we do this to modern women, right? It's like the pressure to get your body back to be just as sexual. We have these mom influencers who talk about how they're having multi orgasmic sex and it's like, great. But that's not the experience of most women. Also people tend to in social media. So my radical ideas take the pressure off penetration and see what happens. I love that and I just I'm so grateful I've said this a few times, but I just love the texture that you bring to this space. And like, like we said earlier, like there's so much like, you know, just focus on the vibrators or like, you know, the self-pleasure and the masturbation and that you bring just such a real like the, the actual foundational pieces that are so important. So I'm so grateful. I adore this conversation. Like, I'm obsessed with this conversation. I can't wait for people to hear. I mean, I'm for you guys. So welcome. Yo yo yo, thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of sex, love and everything in between. Now, if you'd like to stay connected with Megan, you can head on over to Instagram and follow me at the Jacob O'Neal. And where can people find you? Love her at b dot, Megan. Oh amazing. And yeah, guys, check out the show notes for all other information in regards to what we've got coming up. And yeah, we're super, super grateful that you guys for taking the time to listen in to this podcast. If you do have any topics or any questions, like I said, hit us up on Instagram and we'll see what we can do. Apart from that, have a beautiful, beautiful rest of your day. Thanks for being here. Big, big love.