Sex, Love & Everything In Between
Welcome to the Sex, Love & Everything in between podcast, a show devoted to helping modern days couples create & experience epic sex & deeeeep intimacy. Join Sex & Relationship Coach, Meg O, and her husband, Leadership Coach, Jacob O’Neill as they take you on a real, raw & unfiltered behind the scenes look into their relationship & sex life. From navigating conflict + communicating with an open heart to having the best orgasms of your life + the glory of anal sex …Yep, you’ll truly be joining Meg & Jacob on a journey into sex, love & EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN. WARNING: Things get hot, steamy & explicit in this podcast. Listen at your own risk.
Sex, Love & Everything In Between
Ep 105: Redefining Motherhood, Business & Sex - A New Paradigm w/ Kat River
"You can be it all, just not all at once."
Motherhood, business, intimacy—how do you hold it all without burning out or feeling like you’re constantly failing at one of them? In this raw and deeply honest episode, Meg sits down with Kat River to unpack the realities of juggling business, relationships, and motherhood without losing your sense of self.
Kat shares her unfiltered journey of stepping away from traditional business structures, redefining success, and creating a life where motherhood and creativity work together instead of competing. From sex and intimacy after kids to launching in a way that doesn’t drain your soul, this episode is a must-listen for any woman wanting to build a family-centered life and business—without sacrificing her own joy.
Meg and Kat also riff on:
- Kat’s journey: From relationship coach to creative entrepreneur & mother
- The myth of “having it all” and why we need to stretch our timelines
- Sex & intimacy after kids: Letting go of pressure & redefining connection
- Balancing business & motherhood without feeling like you’re failing
- Why fast launches burn moms out (and how to do it differently)
- Redesigning your business to fit your family—not the other way around
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Instagram: @the.kat.river @themothermakers
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Hey beautiful humans. Welcome to sex, love and everything in between. You're here with Jacob and my wife, Meg. And this is the place where we have all the very, very real, raw and extremely unfiltered conversations about sex, love and everything in between. Oh, yeah. It's here. You get a behind the scenes look into our relationship, and we will not be holding back what we might not know. Hey, you don't know how to do that. Not at all. Sorry. Beautiful ones. Thank you for being here. Enjoy this episode. What does sex look like? What does intimacy look like? And I look at Harley, and I am like, we've got, like, high intimacy, but we do not have sex five times a week. But we are like, kissing, cuddling, touching, playing, laughing. And then, yes, sexual intimacy too. But like, not always penetration. Like we could go a month without penetration, but it doesn't feel like we haven't had sex because also like, you know, and I've got friends and sexologist like, this is where we recondition what even sex is. Sex is not penis in vagina. It's actually like that's part of sex, but it isn't sex, right? So then I'm like, oh, well, I have to re re y my teenage brain when it comes to what sex is because I'm like, oh, did we just have sex or did he just go down on me? Yes we did. Can I can I put that in my little diary of how many times we're having sex each month? Like. Yo, yo yo, lovers. Welcome, welcome, welcome to sex, love and everything in between. Where the O'Neals. You're here with Meg and Jacob. And this is the place we have really uncensored conversations about sex, intimacy and relationships. Well, super excited you're here. Enjoy this episode. What? Hello, everybody. Welcome back to sex, love and everything in between. I have the beautiful cat River with me today, and I was giving the cat before. We hear it. Call it that. I'm actually very. This feels like a very selfish conversation because I'm excited to pick cats brain on everything to do with motherhood and business, motherhood and relationships. So yeah, a lot of these questions will just be for me today. Thank you for having me. So happy to be here and talking to you today. Me too. I feel I feel like I've only started following you in the last year and a bit or maybe, maybe the last few years, but I feel like you've been in my circle. Like I've felt you and seen you and lots of people sharing your work for like years and years. And obviously the, the close up, because. How old's your eldest? Oh he's four and a half. Yep. And then I've got 18 month old as well. Yeah. So I feel like the closer I got got to you know, being initiated into motherhood, the closer you came into my field and the closer you came into my world. And yeah, I just feel like why I'm so excited to have this conversation. And I'd love you to introduce yourself in a moment, too, but I just feel you the way you stand so strongly in your values of fam family, your values of like being rooted, being anchored, your value of like family centric business and really. Yeah, like merging, like intimacy, relationship, family, motherhood, like, you know, business, money, all of those things. But like, it's such a deep weaving of integrity and I don't, I don't see, you know, there's many women doing that, but you just stand out so beautifully, like in, in that scene and you do that so well. So I'm so excited to pick your brain today on that. But before we go there and I start, throwing questions at you, would you like to. I'd like to just you to introduce yourself to my community. Like, let us know what you do, who you are in the world. Beautiful. Thank you for saying all that and making my little heart now already. Okay, so. Hello, everybody. I am a mother of two beautiful boys. Both. I don't know anyone having familiarity with human design, but both I have. One project is. So parenting projects is a whole other ball game for me. That's new. Kelly O'Connor is my husband. He is a relationship coach, so we used to do a lot of relationship coaching together. We used to run relationship retreats. We have a program together, and then motherhood hit and about a year in I go. Midlife crisis. I don't want to be a relationship coach anymore, I love it, I have a lot of interest in it, but I needed to kind of find my way through motherhood a little bit. So I pivoted, I paused, I got off social media. I, you know, just gave myself a breath to be me again and figure out who am I in motherhood because my relationship, work, career had been all through my my maiden era. I. And so I was trying to figure that out and I deep dived into creativity. I deep dived into studying the creative process. And for me, like I've always associated myself as a creative. I just told myself, the little voice inside my head being like, yeah, but like, you don't really make money from being a creative. So that's like your hobby. And then like, you got to go put on your bingo pants and do an actual career for like if you want to make any money. And so I had to like, wrestle with that inner conflict as a mother being like, I want to make money. I love making money. I love making, like not having to hold all the pressure of providing for a family. But I also love to creatively pivot. I love to be chaotic. Sometimes I love to say not babe, I don't wanna do anything for the next six months. Can you hold the fort and then pop back in when I'm inspired and ready? Right. Like, this is my own personal process. And so I needed to figure out how do we set up a life that holds what feels natural for us, rather than trying to fit ourselves into the box of what was deemed as a normal family, where dad goes to work and mom's at home with the kids, right? Because we didn't shoot the traditional roles. But I could appreciate parts of those roles. And also we needed to just figure it out. And you'll probably figure out on this podcast that I'm not a very dogmatic person in the sense that, like, I can always hold duality of everything all the time. And so it wasn't necessarily to say, now I'm going to go and work in the creative world and tell you this, that I'm, I don't think it's one or the other. So I had my hiatus and then I came back with vengeance. I was like, I think I figured something out. And I went to go and start working with mothers in the creative space. I had finally claimed so many parts of myself that I had not given the time of day whether I had been in my maiden era or as a mother. We finally found a bit of a rhythm. I finally found ways to, like, work with the creative tension of not being able to act on inspiration in the moment all the time, because like, you've got a child that needs you and sleep deprivation and like the relationship pressure of actually needing to show up there still and like, where does it all fit? Is there enough hours in the day? I don't think so. Right. So this was my mental conflict for a long time. Finally felt like I'd figured out a few things and went to go and help mothers in that space, and it didn't work. And I was like, what do you mean? Like, surely people are having the same issues as me and want support, and it's like, what's going on? And I realized that sometimes our ideas have their own timeline, and it's important to be able to attune to what that looks like rather than, you know, standing here and being like, well, I'm ready. So life show up for me now, like I've done the work and here I am. So I had a bit more initiation to go, and I took another two years before I started really, truly being completely embodied in the message that I wanted to bring for mothers, which was to challenge like the paradigms we believe are to be true, and that we can actually be intuitive, mother centric, you know, tapped into ourselves, our creativity lit up, feeling turned on by our lives and ourselves and our partners and our family dynamics, and also like going and putting ourselves out into the world, being paid well for it, and finding ways that that can be leveraged so that we can actually have the time and the energy and feel nourished enough to show up and be present, attuned to mothers, grandchildren, which is actually the whole point. So that's great to hear. You. Okay, I have so many little like things I want to pull on there. I want to go back to where you said, like, is there enough hours in the day because, like, I'm, I'm a new mom or she's four months old. I'm also running a business. Even Jacob and I have just been in this conversation the last few weeks around. We have two businesses, a son, a dog, a big home, a yard community, two families that we're very close to where like, we actually can't now as parents, we can't expect to to be able to do all of that. We either need to call in support and like have more support in our home base or really choose the things that are really important to us. We need to be more strategic with our time, like all of these things. So, you know, I would love to hear your thoughts on how you've navigated that and what you really feel like. Because because I think, again, stepping into motherhood and being like, I don't think it is, I don't think it's nourishing for a woman to think that she has to do it all. I don't think I don't think that's a nourishing belief to take into motherhood. And I think the reality is we need to be really clear on where our values are and what's a priority. So I would I would love to hear your thoughts on that. Yes. Cool. So this has been a huge point of tension in my motherhood journey as well. And from what I can understand, working with so many mothers is like, it's pretty across the board, because there is this idea that we have to do it all and we have to do it all well. And if we're not like clicking into a bit of balance, this is this is hyper focus on balance. Yeah. To balance everything needs to be perfectly separated. All right. Like where else in life does balance truly exist other than nature. And the closer we can come back to nature, the slowness, the stillness, I think that's the only way we can even start to taste a little bit of that balance the feeling more up, trying to get more specific with structure, more specific with schedule. I don't know if that necessarily allows space for breathing that is required with motherhood or fatherhood. In saying that, there's also this timeline thing that happens with especially with women, I guess, but it's because of the society we've been brought up in, which has actually been quite patriarchal based. Right. So, there's this idea that we have a purpose. We should find the purpose we should and act it out. Our purpose is not necessarily just our children. And if it is just our children, then we've abandoned ourselves. But if we're completely in our work, then we've abandoned that children. And so there's this like conflict inside of us that there's a lot of pressure around. Because you do think that's enough on its own, let alone then relationship, family, community, work, like all of it. Dog. It's hard. Like friggin cleaning a house. Like I moved out of a big house because I was like, I don't have the time in my life for this situation. Like. And we also had to clean up. And I was like, I still don't have the mental capacity to like, I don't want to walk past my closet and feel guilty every time. That's taking up emotional space in my body, like burn off my clothes. So, you know, there's a lot of that. But what I've noticed is that a lot of mothers want to do it all and do it all now. Doing it all is not a nourishing mentality to have, but what the the part of that that deprives us is the part that we have to do it all now, and we see our lives in weekly schedules and monthly schedules. Also, that's question that right. Why are we even on that timeline. But that's maybe the conversation. We see our lives in weekly schedule. So we're like okay how do I fit relationship work children present time with the kids actually having some alone time to self inquire around the way I parent, the way I do business. Like you know, self inquiry, community, family, volunteering time for anything, even if that's like in your DMs as like a professional, right. Like you're helping people in these like micro moments all the time. Like that is your volunteer work. And so like, how do we balance all that in a week. Maybe we fucking con. And maybe if we stretch that out to a month and made sure every box was ticked over a month, or if a two months, oh there's a bit of space now, it's like why are we trying to squish it into a week? Or why are we trying to squish it into a day? Like for so long I was like, okay, well, we need to have time alone time as a couple time as a family every day and time to work. That's like four decent chunks of time alongside dishes, cooking, washing, like making sure that we're not in shambles. So like, why am I trying to fit it all in every day? All in every day and then all in every week and then so when and we do this with our work. So we do this with that business is what we try and be like all of our co-create career ideas. How do we merge them all in one moment? It's like life is long, life is long. There will be space for all of it. Like, can we release the pressure of trying to, like, be all of ourselves in every moment? And maybe we like it's important to be connected to ourselves. Absolutely and no. In archetypes and all of that, of course. But every moment does not fall for all of us. It's circumstantial. And so maybe on a Tuesday, I'm just mum and I'm not trying to do the work thing, and I'm not trying to like, make love every single day. And I'm not trying, you know, like, maybe I'm just going to do dishes and make sure the kids have super nourishing meals, and I'm fed and I've had my ups, and I have a moment to sit down with a cup of tea when they nap. Like, that's Tuesday, and maybe it's also Thursday. And then maybe on a Wednesday I go to a podcast and I get a few hours in at the office, and maybe I work smarter, not harder, and make sure that the work I do do pays me well. Is time leveraged more so that I'm not stuck in the office all the time? And maybe telly does the same thing, and maybe he's supposed to be in the home too, because how often are we thinking that it's like the men need to go and provide and we're the ones in the home because our kids need mum, of course. But you know what? They also need that, And why why are we still sending the dads away? It's 2025. Like there's so many other options now. And like, that is like, I get frickin hate for that statement because people are really hellbent on the industrial era still. And I'm like, we are beyond that now. We are honestly beyond it. Like there is so much possibility in our lives. So that was a very long winded no. I like the that whole thing, but I yeah, I get a bit, you know, about it because like, why are we trying to do it all at once. Like you can be it all, but you can't be at all. All the time. So that like, kind of what I live by. Yeah. That I feel that in my body. And the other thing you said before is women want to do it. All now and. Well, and what came up for me is like this in a good girl like which I am, you know, I have spent years, you know, moving through and, you know, integrating is the part of me that thinks, especially now in mother the like, the inner perfectionist, like I need to be, you know, my dog needs to be perfect. My son, like my time with like I just need to be doing all these things perfectly. And it's so interesting to be with because even even getting to reflect with, Jacob on this, like I don't think he has that. He doesn't have that part of him that like, he's okay to be like, oh, that that part drops off for a bit and that's okay. Where the part of me that it's not okay or feels uncomfortable when, you know, parts of my life kind of feel like I'm they're dropping off or a little messy. And I think that's I think that's a conditioned, internalized thing with women. A lot of women carry totally. And we think that that identity is always in the moment. But like, if I'm not like if my libido is dropped off or I feel really tired or I haven't had time to reach out to my friends or my voiding my text books, I'm freaking overwhelmed. Or like, that must now be who I am. And that's a problem. And it's like, but also that stretching out to two years. And if you have a decent amount of community connection over two years and you show up over the next two years and you cook for your other friends postpartum, maybe in six months from now, maybe you don't have capacity right now, but like it also goes around and, you know, over the next two years you nourish your relationship. And over the next few years you build a business. All of a sudden there's a bit of space in the body for us to just like, allow ourselves to be as we are, and knowing that it literally passes so quickly and we are always pivoting and moving and adjusting to our families needs and our own needs. And right now, you might just need some sleep and some good supplements into this much. I think this is such a yeah, this is such an important piece and I hadn't thought of it. I love the timeline piece around like, how much are we trying to, you know, tick everything off in a day or a week where when we stretch it out, if we're nourishing those parts of our life over a more extended period of time, like, oh, I can feel my body even just like resting into that. Even what's come up for me again, like early, early parenthood is, you know, sex and intimacy is something that's really important to me. And we're still very much finding our way as new parents with that. Like being like, oh, how is that even, like, you know, or if there is time and, you know, we co-sleep he contact naps a lot. So it's like, truly, you know, there's this there's not much space right now. And then maybe at the end of the day, like just trying to find the time where both of our libidos are there and like, we're both, you know, desiring that. And again, I'm the I'm the type of person that can sometimes make that mean something around. And I love what you said. It's like what we're feeling in the moment. Often we think that is our identity, and I do that sometimes, like we haven't had sex in two weeks. Oh my God, that must mean something's wrong with us, not embodied. We have to like, rebrand the whole business. I have a podcast call sex, love and everything in between that should be, you know, we should be having sex x amount of times, like. And it's so interesting. Is this like how what I make that mean? And also something that's really supporting me right now is that like, why do I think my husband's cock needs to go into my pussy for our relationship to, to to be okay or for that to mean something? It's like there's so much intimacy we experience when we're playing with our son or like when we're connecting over our son, or when we're in these like, micro moments throughout the day. Why is there this like, why do I sometimes put the pressure on this like this to happen? So that, you know, I can feel like a it's such a funny thing, and I'm sure I'm just seeing the power in relaxing that, taking the pressure off. Yeah. Having to have penetrative sex but yeah. Yeah. And this is the deconditioning work that we have to do as parents, right? And it's not just the mother's job. Like, this is the father's job, too, because there's a lot of and I'm speaking obviously very generally here, like, there's a lot of men who wonder where the penis in vagina sex goes. And it's like, I have had very many experiences myself where I'm dying for sexual intimacy, but I could not give a shit about being penetrated in that moment. I'm like, oh, just touch me, play, enjoy me. But like don't please don't go inside, make some actually like my body's not open I've been freaking like giving all day I'm sure shut down. And sometimes we don't have the time to spend opening the body completely. And so that's where the parenthood comes in. And so it's like men, just as much as women need to start reconditioning our mind. Us like, what does sex look like? What does intimacy look like? And I look at Tully and I, I'm like, we've got like, high intimacy, but we do not have sex five times a week. But we are like kissing, cuddling, touching, playing, laughing. And then, yes, sexual intimacy. True. But like, not always penetration. Like, we could go a month without penetration, but it doesn't feel like we haven't had sex because also, like, you know, and I've got friends and sexologists like, this is where we recondition what even sex is. Sex is not penis in vagina. It's actually like that's part of sex, but it isn't sex, right? So then I'm like, oh, well, I have to re re y my teenage brain when it comes to what sex is because I'm like, oh, did we just have sex? Or did he just go down to me? Yes we did. Can I, can I put that in my little diary of how many times we're having sex each month? I can, I can I record that? And so it's like that process too. And at the end of the day, honestly, it doesn't fucking matter as long as you're feeling good today. Like, you can have no sex for a year if you wanted to. And if you're feeling fucking awesome and like the best team ever and like smooching every now and like whatever. Like, like we again, like you said, we make everything mean something. And I love that where you said the intimacy. Because I feel like Jacob and I are the same that like. And that's actually what's most important to me. It's just funny, a little part of me that, you know, that the tick off, the thing that in a good how much secondary having how much this really what is when I sit down and go what am I values of what what truly fills me in my relationship? It's when I'm in the kitchen, my husband comes up behind me and hugs me. It's it's nothing. Jake, when I talk about, like, the channel between the hearts, like, you know, keeping things clear, not like piling resentments that that's important to me. Like not carrying shit. Especially now as a parent. Like, that's more important to me than sex. Like, how clear is how clear is that? Is the channel between our hearts? How how much are we like speaking to what's alive in our relationship and tending to that? Yeah. And like it'll evolve as you get older. I like all of a sudden you have a five year old and they'll be gone off to their school or their little push school and you'll be like, oh, we've got like five hours. We can reengage our two hour sex marathon now. Like, you know, like again, stretching out that timeline of maybe over a ten year period, you have a great sex life, but over if we're looking at it from a one year period, the first year of parenthood, maybe. And there'll be moment, though, so be moments that you're like, we're fucking doing it. Like we're nail in this day. Like, look at this guy. Let's record. Like tempo goes this way because we're doing such a good job. And then you go months and you're like, oh, well, you know, it's just and I mean, it's just a self-judgment aspect, isn't it? Like, why are we so harsh and I yeah, I just I feel like the, the piece from this podcast so far is that like the stretching the timeline and you spoke about like holding the tension earlier. You spoke about holding the tension of creativity and like realizing, okay, you know, I have this idea or I have this, this creativity moving through me. But right now I can't take action on it. And I kind of can see that in relationship as well. It's like I have this desire. I, you know, I yearn to be connected. I want her body to touch her. I want this. But right now, you know, it's it's not possible right now, in this moment, right now, this week or right now, this month, we can't have much of that. And and just being able to. And I'd love to hear your piece around this around creativity as well. But being able to like I guess, become comfortable with that tension, like holding that tension, relaxing into that tension. Not not kind of like gripping into it and feeling like, oh my God, I got to do that. Like relaxing into it so we can be present with what is. Yeah. Yeah, totally. And I guess I can really share from what has worked well for us. And again this is such like a dynamic thing for people as well because it does require firstly that deconditioning work as to what it, what we think it all should look like. And then one shot on, it's like, okay, the pressure can release a bit, but like tonight, let's say for example, like on going, I'm visiting family. I family live in states, so we usually go for like a month. We say this mom's place, do I feel completely platonic? It is mom's place, I do, I, you know, like I don't really want to have sex in the sewing room. It's not really my vibe. So, like, we don't often have a lot of sex when we go and see family. Yeah, right. But we kind of just make peace with that. It doesn't mean anything about our relationship. It just means that our priorities, focus elsewhere for that month, and we get home and it's like, great. Finally we've we've missed each other. Right? But it's just like we have the conversation. He knows that I'm probably not going to be super turned on in his mom's place, and he's okay with that. And we both just direct our energy to creating whole memories as a family, connecting with our extended family, working, going to the gym or going to the beach and like doing the things that have us feeling well. And of course, if naturally there's a moment there that it feels really easy to connect, we absolutely will know, okay, what we can, but it's like whenever there's real tension, it's not to avoid the tension. It's not, hey, go get distracted and avoid the tension and not talk about the tension and not acknowledge it because then it just becomes festering. It becomes something that keeps popping up later. But when you can acknowledge it and be like, the tension is here, it's uncomfortable. I want to connect, but it's just really not the right environment to be right now. And we can both with that move with it. Okay, cool. Where should we intentionally divert our attention now so that we're still like channeling energy somewhere? Because it's like when you want to channel energy towards each other sexually, right? Or creatively and you can't, then it's like you're creating a block of the channel and it's building up, building up. Now there's pressure, whereas if you can redirect that channel and you put that love energy, you put that connection energy towards your children, towards whatever it's like, you notice that the big pressure starts to dissipate, and then you can revisit it without any pressure later because you're not like building it up in your head around this thing that you haven't done in like three weeks. Now all of a sudden you have to do it, but not like you got to try and get mentally prepared and emotionally prepared. And that feels like a really big thing that you have to overcome. It's just like the energy's been flowing and now you just like the little river and it flows over here. And like as long as there's a channel. And this is why I think that, you know, mothers in business and the creative mothers, it's like we want our energy to work for that business, but it can't always. So it's like getting really good at holding that tension, diverting the energy, getting comfortable with the tension and redirecting our energy without the shame, without the guilt, without the judgment, without that. Oh it should be here. But now it's over here. Right. Just like embracing the presence of that. When we get really good at that, then we can go, oh, okay, business needs me. I'm here. Children need me. I'm here. Partner needs me. I'm here. Can't be there. Okay, I'll be here. And we just get really good at that dance. That's actually the process. And the quicker that we can do that with more ease and less self-judgment and just do the thing because we're just present. And this is where I'm needed. Cool. Done. Like, it's not actually a big deal. Like, why do we get all caught up in the stories about it? I'm just needed here, so I'll just be here. And of course like, you know running a business for example, you've got things that are scheduled and you've got that. And so then that the practicalities do have a place at the table. I'm just not sure if they're like the first thing on the table. What do you mean by that. So like the first thing most people would do is, okay, I'm going to schedule all my work. I'm going to get in my business this week. I'm going to make sure all the logistics are cared for so that I can relax, which there's an element of that. Absolutely. I personally go, okay, am I feeling like my emotional well-being cup is full so that I can be present in the moment so that my No system is regulated? Because if I can be present, then I can be wherever I need to be with ease. If I need to be in work, I can be in work. And when I can be at home, I can be at home. But if I if my head's like, this is the structure that we've planned and now my children need me huge tension, right? How the heck do you surrender that quickly? All of an ethic all of a sudden that, you know, like I was like made launching my first week and my kid gets ball and and his penis is blowing up and I'm in the emergency room, like, how do we get here? I'm just saying, like, how does I, I don't know. Anyway, so that happened. But like my ability to just pivot. Okay, I was in the first week of my launch, energy going like inspired, etc. and pivot. Okay, I'm off for two days, three days. And that was easy because my emotional well-being was willing to be present, whereas if I was like in a stress kind of like I'm in a launch, I need to hustle, I need to get it out. Like I'm not like I'm disregarding my emotional needs because of a launch and that hustle energy, which I'm sure will go into it later. I'm not an advocate for hustle. Then, like, it's very hard to disconnect from that back into family when you need to be. So that's kind of what I mean by like, I think the structure is absolutely important, but it doesn't come before our ability to be present. And so that's why we need to create lives and set up lives that allow for those pivots when they need to happen, because otherwise it's really fucking hard. Yes, yes, yes, even like, you know, I've it I've had quite a, easeful journey into motherhood so far. But the moments that have been hard have been the moments where I have thought something would look different. And it's not that it's like, oh, I had planned like, babies should be sleeping right now because I wanted to get two hours of work done and now baby's not sleeping. So I'm feeling the tension. I'm feeling that no, this isn't how it should be. Or baby should be. It's usually it's around sleep. Like,
you know, it's 9:00 or I want to just spend, you know, take. I have kind of scheduled in an intimacy practice every Thursday night.
And like last week, it's at 8:00. But she wasn't asleep and then I need to practice. Was falling asleep and touching each other's hands. But before that, I could feel the tension of like, oh, no, I really this isn't how it should look. So yes, oh my gosh. I think that's the biggest practice in my journey so far. As a mother. And I think just in life as well, just learning how to, like you said, pivot. And I think that's probably the absolute superpower of, of a mother being able to to pivot or the practice of being able to pivot and be present with what is. And I love what you said, like, around just being present with or being able to be present wherever you are, like whatever you're doing, whether it's motherhood, whether it's business, whether it's with tell in your relationship, like, yeah, that's that's what's most fucking important. Yeah. And like. Years later what like even last night we were meant to be in ceremony together and then Ren just doesn't want to go to sleep last night. He's just waking up every half hour wanting boob. And I'm just like super touched out, like kind of high on this. And I'm just like, oh, like, okay, good bye sex life tonight. But also like, we've got tomorrow night, we've got the next night whatever. Like we'll just go move it. And so, you know again that pressure of like an age to be tonight because this is what we had scheduled in then it's like oh but when we are attuned to the family, it's not the highest need for the family actually for that tonight. So then where can the quickest pivot be? Can we now just be present and just watch a movie and yeah, you know, journal for half an hour instead of make love for an hour and a half, whatever. Like, yeah, I think even just like drawing a parallel to business two and how like because like the feeling I get that is like grippy, like it's like it should be. We should be doing our intimacy practice wise something. And it's almost like the same in a launch. It's like, this is the launch, that this should be doing better. This there should be 20 people inside already. And I just love what you said before. It's like, can we stretch it out? Like maybe this isn't a launch? Like I remember the early stages of my business. I was always just like, this is the one. This is the launch that's going to make me a hundred k. This is the thing. And I would just pile like all this pressure on the one thing. And what I've really learned now is a business owner is an a creative is like like just let's just flow with it. Let's not like just like, oh my God, hold so tightly onto this one thing I'm going to, I'm going to be creating for decades and decades. Let's just be with what is, let's just bring it for this like amount of time that I'm launching or whatever. And just really and I think, I think this is I think that's is such a relief to bring this because I think there is this, kind of energy in the, in the online world where it is like hit the ten K, hit the hundred, like whatever it is. So there's so much pressure to we're just trying to put so much pressure on one thing and it's just it doesn't feel good. Totally. And like exactly. If you can be creating for the next ten, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 is what's the rush. Yes. And like, I don't know, maybe you resonate with this, maybe you don't. But like, I love money. I'm like, fuck yeah, I would love 100 K to come in to a lot. Of course. Like I'm not going to say no to that, but I will say no to it if it drains me, has me burnt out, and has me not be the mother I want to be, then I'm not actually interested. Because what's the whole point? The whole point? The reason why you want the financial abundance is so that you can be with your kids and be present. It's not so that you can like tick off a box. And so if the process of going to that 100 K takes me away from my children in ways that I'm not actually aligned with, then I don't want 100 K or I don't want it that quickly. I'm happy to like maybe that 100 K stretches out over months rather than weeks or years, you know, whatever. Like so, you know, even launching as a mother, I launch very differently to how I used to launch. I used to launch in this really like, okay, I need to open doors for a week. I need there to be urgency. I need people to like, you know, be able to come into my space, like quickly, make the decision quickly. And I've got this surge of energy. So I just want it to be kind of almost fast, like only opened doors for a week or two weeks. When I became a mum, I learned very quickly that quick launches, fuck me over, fuck my family over and fuck other people. If I'm working with moms, they don't want to have to make a decision like right then and there. They've got kids to feed and dinner's on the table and they need to be able to sit with it that night and sit down with a cup of tea and think about it and like, chat to their partner about it because their family actually has responsibilities. It's a disservice to absolutely everyone involved to do a quick launch. And then I'm on my phone all the time, and every single day matters. Every day matters with a quick launch. And so when I started stretching out launches to a month and I was like, okay, I'll go kind of hard that first week, I'll chill out, pull back a little bit the second week, the third week, focus more on the emails, that sort of thing, and then, you know, go hard again. That last week was like really closing things up. And my energetics go from like very general, more and more specific. As a launch goes on, I feel more and more attuned to the client, etc. it gives people time to think about a time to plan about it. It gives people time to like, see enough to make decisions and then like come in like in the always, always last few days. And it also means every single launch. So far, I've had a child that's become sick in the launch, and every single time I've had at least a week where I've, we've been in like sleep deprivation, then recovery. Imagine if that week was my only launch week. Like how disheveled our family would be at the end of that. It's not worth any amount of money at the end of the day if like you know I'm having to just focus on repairing in the relationship, repairing in my motherhood like oh, my kids even now, usually, especially when we look at the energetics of sickness, it's usually because they're like experiencing some sort of separation, especially in this first few years. So if I'm like being in launch prep a lot more than normal, my child feels a bit more like this separation from mum, her energy and attentions elsewhere, and I'm going to get sick. So I want the attention back, which is so fair enough. And then my attention goes back to them. So it's like, imagine if we didn't give ourselves the time as mothers, like the only way to have a launch that feels nourishing as a mother for ourselves in our family is to give it space and time to breathe. And so it's like that concept. But then on our life and on our creativity and on our relation. I love that so much. And I'm feeling that already as a mother, like you know before in my mind, and yes, I work seven days a week if I wanted to, I didn't usually, even if I, if I was in a launch, I could. No one needed me. Like I could write, I could do, I could work 12 hours a day. I could just do it whenever and now I want what's get it, what's what's turning me on. And what I'm getting off on is like, how much, how much impact can I make and how much money can I make with, like working a day and a half a week or like two days a week? Absolutely. That feels so exciting to me. And like you said earlier, how much like, I'm so much more intentional with my time and my energy and what what I used to do in like five days, I do it like a day and a half now. Totally. And I really feel you in that pressure of, like those quick, kind of quick launches that everyday does matter. And so as a mother, even, I'm thinking if I was to do that now, I would feel tension every day if I was with my child, I would feel tension. I should be posting, I didn't. I need to get that post out. I need to do that thing because it matters and people need to see this. And I've only got three days left or five days left or whatever it is. Yeah, but yeah, how can we? And I love that this is just like the depth of your work, like designing our entire business and the entire way we create around our family and around our mothering and that that's we're allowed to do that. Like, we don't have to. We don't have to just like, look at how other people are launching go. That's that must be the only way to do it. So I've got to fit, you know, my family and myself into into this little box like we get to, you know, you're just such a beautiful, example of that. Like, I love how just, like, can feel like how ruthlessly devoted you out of that. Like, there's no other option, though. Like, that isn't like if I want to be the mom I want to be, which, like, we have a very attached base parenting style, like I call it with the kids like that, like they've the first two years, Rafi was never in care. And when he was in care, it was with my brother for like two hours. And I was in the house and then, like, it's only since he turned three that he does like a five hour day at, like a bush candy. Right. Like it's I'm so attached to my children and I love that. I feel like it's necessary in this age that they're in. And so, like, you know, once they're over the age of seven, maybe like full of different. But right now, in the first seven years, like, okay, our priority is actually emotional well-being more than realistically more than money. But you need money to be able to be have the time to be present with your children. Because if you're financially stress, guess who is like your children? Your family. Like that's where that goes. So like there is that balance or not even balance is harmony really. There is a sense, right, that needs to still take place because we could say, oh, well, my only focus is emotional well-being. So let's like not work and jump on Centrelink and we'll just be present all day as a family. But then like the bills show up your new ties and you stress out your freaking brain, right? So there's like, that's not that's not it either. But then it's also not it's like work seven days a week and like sick, I've got like $1 million and it's like, well, but your kid needs you, like, where's daddy? You know, or where's mom even, like, whatever. Like, so there is for every single family, there will be a sweet spot, but it's going to be different for all of us, which is why there is no strategy that's going to work for you. You can't go and watch ten friggin million courses on how to make viral Instagram Reels. The viral Instagram reel does not pay your bills. It's like literally does not like. People are so hellbent on becoming viral and like you please like reestablish your values here because like the amount of videos I've had go viral and they do not yeah. No money. So it's just like, so such a weird place to have that energy. It's like, okay, what, what can I do in the amount of time I have that's going to produce the best results, which is very much like the attitude this like the efficiency mindset in a sense. And I feel like that's where we do balance our, like, inner worlds and come into that place of like, okay, intuition and strategy, inspiration, guidance. And that's kind of to be smart about this because like my inspiration might say, okay, let's just go and paint a picture and it takes me a month and then like, I show it for $700 or I use my creativity to curate a course and create content that I'm lit up about, and that generates $100,000. And then it's like, oh, cool, right? So like, it's not to say I'm not being creative, but like, where do we channel that energy? And then that's where a bit of strategy comes in. It's like, okay, can we actually be clever about this? Because everyone has an idea of how they can do their service, how they can do their work in the world? Most people are still looking at it from a employee situation where they're like, okay, I'll put a time in, I'll get paid time back. So like, I put in two hours and, you know, if I was to like, guess, you know, $50 an hour, maybe I get paid $100 back, right? So if I want to make more money, I have to work more time. And even if you're self-employed, we're still employing ourselves, right. It's not really. There's like business. It's not entrepreneurial in our way of going about things. And the difference between someone in self-employed ness is that the word and business or entrepreneurship is creative thinking. How do we get creative in our solutions? How do we create leverage so that we can actually be in our value system and our work can nourish our value system? It doesn't have to be in spite of or to sacrifice our value system. And this is a shift because usually when we're in, I made an energy free parenthood. We're more willing to sacrifice because we can just catch up later. I'm more like, I don't need to eat breakfast because I would just like, have a bigger lunch or whatever. When you're a mom, it's like, I need protein first thing in the morning because I'm breastfeeding and I got to shop and I have to have the emotional capacity to hold what's going on today. In fact, I need to eat every two hours and that actually has to be a priority. I can't just get into hyperfocus for seven hours anymore. And like I try I still try talking to the kids. I really just need to get into my hyperfocus. But you know and like for me I work well at nighttime like I get a second hit of energy and like I could be off to midnight happily. But then I kind of pay for the next day. So, you know, like, there's always. So when it comes to work, it's like, how do we create leverage so we can do the minimum amount of work but be fulfilled by that work, energized by that work, nourished by that work. So it gives us energy to show back up in our family and, you know, we went through a phase where we wanted to outsource everything. So we were like, okay, we'll get a cleaner, let's get heaps of meal prep done because that'll make our life better. I don't want to cook. I don't want to clean. I just want to like, hang out with kids. Oh, but you know what? Maybe we should consider getting a nanny for a couple of hours a day so that we can work, right? Because I love my work, and it gives me energy and focus and all the things. And then let's get a VA and let's get this and let's get someone to do this. And then I was like, why am I feeling so disconnected from my life? Right. Like there's this idea that we want to make the money so that we can create all this ease and pay for all this support. But then I was like craving to do my own dishes. I was like let me get back into my life. I just actually want to be living with my baby while they sleep and having the amount of presents to just stare at their face, not thinking about maybe I should post on Instagram while they're asleep. Or like I want. I wanted to clean my own home again. I was like, oh, that's interesting how quickly we can feel disconnected from our lives and that's like beyond the point. So it's like that again, there's that fine line between like creating support and finding support so that we can be in our purpose and our vision and purpose. I say that lightly. Yeah. Purpose is to just be a frickin self in the moment and, you know, watch our essence do its own magic. But you know that I didn't want my kids to see me outsourcing my whole life either. Like, oh no, my mom doesn't cook. No, I don't see a clean. She's kind of in a room journaling all the time. Like, you know, she's just on the computer doing some calls. That's what my mom does. Like, I wanted to be the mom that, like, makes the friggin sausage rolls with my kids and plays in the sandpit with them. But also like, yeah, we can go and clean together. You can help me come and like, tidy the bathroom or tidy, you know, like, so it's not to say I wouldn't outsource cleaning as it would, but like not to rely on. So my thing was, I'll just make more money so I can pay for more support. That's the solution. And I don't know if that's necessarily in this seasons where that's absolutely necessary for sure. Absolutely yes. But I don't know if that's necessarily the answer either. I, I feel you and I went even before children I a few years ago when I started making good money, I was just wanting I wanted to outsource everything. Yeah. Everything. And then it was like, oh, where am I distracting myself from? Actually, yeah. Like living, like, you know, being in my home, being in like, the just the mundane moments. And I think that's even more so when you have children, because there's many more mundane moments just being with your child and, and not thinking, okay, money is a way to escape that or avoid that, or just outsource away fully out of that. And yeah, I feel like we're even in that stage now of being like, okay, I feel like we need support, but we're tuning into what does that support look like? Does that look like a nanny a few hours? Does that look like cleaning? Like what? What part of our life do we really want support in? And yeah, what part of our lives are we really committed to just showing up in? And I feel like you said, I feel like I feel like that's going to be an ever present thing. You know, as we add more children and as we, you know, businesses grow and all of these things just I feel like that's such a, Yeah, seasonal piece to totally. And. Yeah, exactly. You hit the nail on the head like it changes as needs change. You know, like my son was adopted for two hours a day, two days a week. And then it was like that wasn't working anymore. And and then I was like, oh, like, I actually don't want to do all the back ends of my business. It bothers me so much. And like, it's tedious and it's taking up hours of my time when I actually just want to be like the face of my business, because that's where I thrive. So why am I paying for nannying or house cleaning when I could actually just pay for all the back end stuff to be sorted, so then I can just like, be in my life, you know? And it's like that. Like so the cliche question about if you were to make$1 million a year and didn't have to work, what would you be doing? And it's like, okay, how do we pivot our lives towards that? And all the questions? And so like, I knew like, we would just be as a family and in my dream, life is not to be a mom at home and to be at work. I'm like, no, I don't want to be the sole emotional provider for my children all day, every day. And then my husband gets home and then I have to show up there. To like that is not my dream. So I just claimed and owned that. That was wasn't my dream. And then I said, hey, Tyler, you know what? I'm actually willing to take the pressure off. You give them, I want to work. I want to be in this. I want to be creative. I want to be in this. So let's pivot. Can you pull back? Can you take some stuff off your plate? I'm going to pick some stuff up. Now. You're just like, here's just as much primary attachment with my kids as I am. I'm breastfeeding my 18 month old and he wants that more than me. And I'm here for it because I'm like, that's actually, it's not about like, splitting everything up all the time. It's about becoming a family. And really, like, how do we nourish the family unit rather than always the individuals and the kids like splitting everything up all the time. What what do you need? What do you need? What do you need? How do we do it? How do we do this? It's like, okay, what does our family need? Like when we put all of our energetics together and this is like pulsing orb of family, what needs to feed that. And usually it's and I know this can feel like edgy for people because a lot of people are in circumstances that they need to be in in order to like cover costs and whatnot. But it doesn't happen overnight either. You can't just go tomorrow, okay? We're just going to be family now and quit everything. Of course, this is like, why not aim for a family centric life? And it might take five years, but then when your kids are five or your kids are ten, they've got mom and dad and you're able to work on projects together and they can like, see you and your gifts and your passions and like, you know, like it just makes the most sense to me. I can't undo that part of my brain. I completely agree, and I feel like you and I feel like you guys with the same, like we we would we've been setting our life up for this for the last, like decade, even, just like Jacob and I have been together ten years and so much of that time has been creating a life where we can live out our values. When we brought children into the world. And I'm not saying people can't do that once they've brought a child into the world or children into the world, I feel like it would feel riskier then, or it would feel like more of a oh, fuck, because there's so much pressure on, you know, I've got to provide for these little humans. But. So, yeah, I'm just. Yeah. Leaving, leaving. This is why I'm so inspired by your family. It's like living out your values. Like your value being such a deep reflection, or your life being such a deep reflection of of the values your family hold. Like that's fucking everything. That up. Everything. Everything. Everything. Everything. Totally. Okay. And that's like, yeah, it's the, pursuit that I think most people are on, but sometimes it's like more of an unconscious thing, right? So it's just bringing it to the conscious and being like, okay, we're actually actively going to go after this rather than accidentally by default. And often, like when we aren't clear on what I value is, then we kind of fall to our unconscious habits because we're intentionally creating. And so this is something like my husband tells us all the time, so if we're not moving towards inspiring challenges, we unconsciously will bring in uninspiring challenges. Challenge is always going to be there. It's a challenge to live in alignment with your values. It's a challenge to be clear in communication about your values. It's a challenge to pivot when you need to pivot and change when you need to change. And it's a challenge to change your career. It's a challenge to learn how to use social media effectively. It's a challenge to like, listen to business podcast and put things into action. It's it's a challenge to be connected to yourself and regularly, you know, system every day. It's also challenging to be broke, to feel uninspired, to feel unfulfilled, to have time away from your children when you don't want to, to put your kids into something you don't want to, to have to like, sacrifice, health and well-being when you don't want to because of or, you know, there's all these other things. So it's the whole choose your hard situation and then question how hard this would actually need to be, because someone maybe has told you it needs to look hard, but maybe it's easier or more simpler than we think. Yes, I love that about the challenge. Like, yeah, life is going to challenge you either way. You can either lean the fuck in and choose it, or life can choose for you. That just reminded me of something that I've been really contemplating as a mother. I used to hate the word sacrifice, but now, as a mother, I quite. I'm really enjoying it and it's really serving me. And I loved a friend, shared this with me years ago. That sacrifice, the like etymology of the word means to make sacred. And isn't that beautiful? So beautiful. And I'm just saying it's not a satanic ritual. And I've just been really enjoying being like, yeah, like motherhood. And I would love to hear your perspective on this. But for me, I'm like, really, really owning that motherhood is sacrificial, like the sacrifices, but it's because I'm making sacred my son. I'm making sacred my family, and it doesn't feel like I'm having to. I'm losing out. It feels like I'm I'm, you know, gaining because I'm offering, you know, this. I'm making sacred my son and my family. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on this around because and it kind of circles back to what we were talking about before, like, as women feeling like we need or as mothers like doing it all. But yeah, I'd love to hear your perspective on that. Like, yes, the sacrifices of motherhood or just like the the. Yeah, I'll just leave it at that. I feel like you can take it where you want to take it. Well, I love that. Firstly like the Make Sacred and I think that's really resonant for me too. And you know, like that to me translates into like I sacrifice an aspect of my own needs, but those needs then get filled up with connection. So it's like it's actually not even like a sacrifice and then empty. The idea is you sacrifice and then you feel, but you can only be full in that presence because if you sacrifice and you're hung up on what you just sacrificed, but your baby's smiling at you and your baby says, I love you for the first time, and you're still hung up on the fact that you didn't end up going out for dinner with your friend or you didn't like. You know you've spent every evening for the last two years at home, like you're hung up on it, and then your baby is like, mama, I love you, and you're not present to take that. And then you're like, you're choosing for the emptiness rather than what's actually coming to replace that gap. So the the sacrifice is like, something is removed to create space for something that's coming, and it's like sacrifice and receive a shift in one. And if you, if you. Yeah, I love that piece around like if you're attached to the made in life. Right. Even I wrote a post on this around like my body I don't know about you that I just wasn't. I've always been quite thin and like. And I just thought I would add it was so unconscious, but I thought, I just have my baby and then my abs would come over, like my abs would be there. And then I was like, oh, like, I'm I really don't body. And it was, it was really confronting. We did like a maternity shoot and I was like basically in nothing. And then when the photos came back, I was like, oh, wow. Like my body. And I could feel the part of me that was attached to the maiden body and like, was was wanting, wanting to her to pull her like into this timeline and like wanting her to return. And it's so interesting how. Yeah, I think it is that attachment to, you know, any part of our made in life that then, you know, we're focused on the emptiness and then we're not able to receive this beautiful, rich, new life. That's for us. And I think that that's that was a huge piece that was really beautiful for me to like, anchor into in the like, you know, in, in my motherhood journey so far, I'm like, this is so life giving. I was expecting, I don't know, just the culture of like, it's going to take so much from me. And I was focused on that leading up, not in my pregnancy, but a few years before getting pregnant. I was like, yeah, I was, I was scared, I was terrified of motherhood, the all consuming nature of it, the escape it like I was. I was I was terrified of that. It was very like, I'm happy with my selfish life. I'm happy with my mate in life. I really and I thought I would step into motherhood and feel that like, really feel, oh my God, this is taking so much for me and I am sure there's going to be moments in the future where I feel sad, but it was I was like, delightfully surprised at how much motherhood filled me and was life giving and how much it's. Yeah, it's it's filled me and nourished me. Absolutely. And it's like that joyful sacrifice. Right. Yeah. No way that I've heard it described is like when we sacrifice with intention then it can become joyful. But when we sacrifice because we feel forced into, we feel like our power is taken away. And then when we feel like a power taken away, we look to blame somebody and then we blame my kids. And then we resent that, not necessarily resenting them as a whole. But, you know, like we go, oh, why did I choose this path? And the maiden, the the gift of the maiden is innocence and selfishness. You were supposed to be selfish because otherwise, how the fuck are you supposed to figure out who you are so that you can then be the woman you need to be to mother? Because you know yourself like it makes sense, right? But then when you become mother like, you get to pass the baton on and you get to shit in like. But I find that when I was a maiden, I sat in between inner child and like, sexually maturing myself. Really. It was like this playful innocence of the inner child. And then there was this, like an unbecoming old woman. And I get to, like, experience my body and pleasure. And what do I want and what don't I want? And what about boundaries? And like, you know, you start playing with yourself. And then when I became a mother, I noticed I really started connecting to the older within myself that instead of only I do connect to my inner child, especially when I'm dropping into play with my children. I love to drop into play. I think it's like one of my superpowers, but I connect to the outer and she, like, reaches back through time and space and guides me in motherhood. And that is something that I don't believe I had as much access to as a maiden. So it's like when we say, oh, we gotta let the maiden go. It's not to say you don't, so give her a seat at the table, but she's not head at the table. The elders head at the table. And motherhood is like you're in awe of who you're becoming and you're on that path there. And like, you know, I love that you spoke about the body because this is like a really big thing for most mothers, most mothers like, what the fuck with the body changes. But like, I look at you and I'm like, you're so fucking sexy. Like, I mean, all of your beautiful mother ness, like, I'm just like, I get obsessed with women because we are so fucking amazingly beautiful. Like, even visually, like, right? Like I'm people like, oh, but, you know, you're is what's on the inside. But yeah, we get it. We've heard it all. And still when we look at ourselves in the mirror, we're like, am I comfortable? Like, I personally I'm like, I've got one boob that's nonexistent and one boob that's like a C cup. What the fuck is with that? Like, doggy style is so awkward, right? I've just got one boob hanging down and one that just doesn't do anything like, it's like, don't do doggy style in the mirror, I tell myself. So, like, we all have something we can all assume. Everyone's confident, we all have something. And like finding the erotic in motherhood for ourselves but for others, like when you can witness it in other women, when you go like, I find her so beautiful and she's rocking around and she's whatever, like three sizes bigger than what she was like. I can't actually look at like, maiden women the same way anymore because I'm like, oh, you, there's something coming for you, and it's going to change your fucking life. And it's so good, right? But like, I only feel that way because I've felt it in myself and I see it in other mothers, and I've witnessed enough mothers reconnect to their erotic nature in motherhood and like their big milky frickin boobs and their arm and their waist and their hips and their butts like dimpling that. And I'm just like, yeah, get it? Like it's so good. It's just like, it's so good in so many ways. And the the only reason we judge ourselves is because as teenagers were brought up in essentially porn culture in, literally the 90s, 2000, 20 tens, like skinny, you know, that all that marketing stuff, and it just fucked our brains. That's it. So when we can start to deconstruct our brains all of a sudden we realize that we're, like, actually in our hottest fucking era, and being a parent is our hottest self. And it's only getting better. We're only getting hotter. Yeah. And like, there is no part of me that now looks at my maiden self and goes, I wish I like still looked a bit like that. I'm like, no, like I'm sorry if I give me the uneven boobs, give me my like cute little wrinkly belly here. And they're like, whatever. I'm just like, I feel so much sexier now than I ever did and fucking love that so much. I want to I want to, like, complete our conversation. Coming into what you were just talking about, like eroticism in motherhood and like the erotic and even like, yeah, because even, like birthing my son and feeling the surface level part of me that was like, oh God, my body looks different. And what the main impact. But then simultaneously feeling like, you know, oh my gosh, I've stepped through this threshold and like almost I had already descended into my pussy and descended into my body. But it was sent that, you know, from birth and, and yeah, there's, there's something it was like it unleashed a deeper, more primal eroticism in my body. So I'd love to hear just you speak about what is it? Yeah. What's your relationship to your own eroticism look like in motherhood? What does that feel like? How does that influence your motherhood? Like being a woman that's connected to your pleasure, connected to, like, the primal aspects of you. How does that make you a better mother? I'd love to. You riff on that. Totally. So what's coming to me first is that, like, there's a lot more erotica in fantasy now, right? Like, before it could be acted on straight away. Now it has to often like, live up in the head for a bit longer. So like, how do I use that to fuel my day? Because like, isn't the space to just go and act on it straight away and then, you know, have the orgasm and then lay in your freaking bliss state for 45 minutes in bed and like, have like a shower and like, redo your tele bomb and like, all the fucking things, right? Like, it's I'm literally like, kids are asleep in a nap. Tully's at work and I'm like, why am I so horny? And then you just have to kind of exist in your brain a little bit or like, you know, Self-Pleasure definitely an option. But depending on the kids, how well they sleep, all the things. Right? There's like so many layers to it. And so or even just the ability to be like, can I prioritize pleasure over doing the dishes and, you know, home things right now? Because as a mother, the pressure goes, I should be doing all of this. Can you relax into a messy home? Can you relax into the chaos like that aspect? So there's a lot more of that fantasy. So being able to like, use sexual energy to charge my body up, to then put into creative pursuits or to put into, like being present and playful with the kids is not to say I'm like, friggin raging in my sexual energy around my kids all the time, but it's like, you know, like you channel it differently, or it's like, let's go and paint together. Let's go make something. Let's go like run around in the yard and play. And so, like, I kind of connect to it in that way a lot. I connect with Tully in the eroticism a lot through ceremony. I feel like that's just something that we connected in a lot pre kids. So when we bring ceremony in, whether it be meditation, breathwork, lotus like, whatever, I don't see it as just like hyper new age spiritual thing for us anymore. It's just like part of our connection process. And that is delicious. Like when I feel like we're both in our bodies and we're both present, like, I find that so attractive. And even like when Tully. So like, when Tully became a father. Like, he just got a trillion times hotter for me. I was just like, oh, my God. Yes. Like, I just found, like, the part of a man that gives himself to his children. Like, that is so beautiful to me. And like, I didn't like the part of a man pre fatherhood that was so hellbent on trying to change the world that they couldn't be fucking present. I didn't like that. Like I liked them being on purpose and like, you know feeling like their energy was direct but like I know Tully previously was just really like he's a really sort of person who likes to be in service. But when that service shifted to his family and to his children, I was like, oh my God, yes, have all of me, you know, I I'm done. And so I had to really use that as a reflection of like, oh, that's what he says in MeToo. Like he sees my frickin devotion and devotion as sexy. And so it's not about whether I have dimples on my butt anymore or whether I feel sexy or whether, like, my milk's like, I like it when my milk comes out. I like period sex. I like all these like, you know, messy, chaotic parts. Like finding the beauty in it because I think that's what sexy is like, being in the rawness of life and being embodied in the rawness of life and being turned on by it. Like, that's my process now. So before it was like, can we light the candles and the oil and the massage table and like, let's make it all this perfect, beautiful, like, you know, let's have sex for four hours and it be tantric and like, you know, tick all those boxes. And now it's like, can we embrace the messiness of our lives and just, like, take each other in this and that? It's like, yes, ten out of ten for me also, of course, I love a clean home and like, you know, lighting a candle and having some music on. No worries. But if you take what you can get. I that came up for me at the beginning of our conversation around like mess when we're talking about motherhood and like holding the tension of things. And I think that's always just like a good part of the crux of this conversation is just like, like being present with the mess, not trying to bypass the mess, not trying to like, clean up the mess. It's like, yeah, and this is life in general. But I think especially as mothers, it's it's can we. Yeah. Can we not try, can we stop trying to get the perfect balance in the perfect. Yeah. The perfection of life in our relationship, in our mothering and our business. And just be be with the rawness of life. And I think that's so and I think that's like, that's that's motherhood. That's that's birth. That's like primal and raw and dirty and messy and that's that's beautiful. And if we're trying I think that's I'm so blessed to have and I this is I'm even more passionate about the work I do now for women that haven't yet stepped into motherhood because I'm like, get fucking comfortable with the depths of yourself and the, the, your primal nature that's going to help you birth, that's going to help you, you know, it's gonna help you in pregnancy, birth, your mothering, your relationship all of life like that, like that descent into the body that that welcoming the the gritty, messy, primal parts of us. Yeah. Otherwise it's it's hard. Otherwise, if you're like a high achiever, a perfectionist, you're going to have a shit time in motherhood unless you can get okay with that. And it doesn't need to be all the time. Like it? Like, for example, if I'm really disheveled and I'm feeling touched out and tired and kind of gross, am I has not been washed in like two weeks or something, you know, and it's been in my moment. Like that doesn't equal I'm feeling turned on. Yes. Right. But if I am making sure that like I'm having the supplements, I'm feeling good. I've had this shower I'd like I've shown up for myself so that I'm feeling just good for the day I get dressed, I'm not in my pajamas all day, like, you know, the basic like a bit of energetic hygiene like that then sets me up to be available for what the rest of the day looks like, even if that's chaotic, because I'm like, okay, I'm feeling here and I'm grounded and I'm, you know, until then, I will do will do like a half hour swap every morning just to be able to center the mind and like, have some thoughts that are happening that are our own just to start the day. I feel like that's been like a really beautiful game changer for us because we weren't always doing that was like, no, we need that slow family morning. But like even just doing a swap of half an hour to just journal to have intention for the day, like has shifted how we relate to each other and the family as well. I love that so much. And I've loved this conversation. This has been so great. I feel like I want a million more conversations about motherhood with you. So any of how we close up, is there anything you would like to add to the conversation or anything? Or also just let people know where to find you and what you've got going on right now? I totally I saw your eyes dot up and my keys here for the baby. Yeah, I know that look. Well, and I am referring to Bubba. Yeah. Just maybe not squinting at the door, waiting. So. Great. Yes. So thank you for today as well. Like I said, love conversation and flowing. And it's so nice to speak to someone else who's like, in it as well because it's like, you know, we just pick up different angles and. Yeah. So good. So thank you. So if people can find me in mostly social media at this point, it's the cat with the K River with the full stop in between each one. I have the mother makers on Instagram as well, which is where I support mothers in creativity and business and motherhood. Mother Mystic Maker I have a Substack called Cat River, and that's where I publish more longform content. And that's kind of it. But, you know, we've got lots of pivots and evolutions coming over here. And I'm excited to see what takes shape and form in the coming years. I love that if you could close up with offering just like one piece, one piece of wisdom, one piece of something to like creative mothers out there, what would it be? That you can absolutely have a life that is nourishing and a life that is juicy and aligned, and you can feel connected to yourself, and you can make money and feel like you're in such a beautiful dance. Your creativity. But it's going to look different and we are actually making the rules. There are no fucking rules. And we are literally paving this way as mothers. Like this is the first time in like history that women are mothering and creating simultaneously, making money, reforming family dynamics. Like this is the first time we've had access to the internet age is 2025. Like there's so much potential in the online space, offline, etc. we're reclaiming our gifts of healers as intuitive as creatives, and we prioritizing these things in our lives where, you know, raising our children with emotional intelligence like we are at like a freaking golden age. And of course we can. Our dreams are not linear, and everything that has been is not what will be. So everything that we've thought has been our story, like wiping slate clean. Anything is possible moving forward, but it's going to look different to how you've been told. And it's there is no one size fits all. And we have to go on this personal journey home to ourselves so that we can understand our own way through this life. And of course, there are guides and mentors and people that can be part of that process. But at the end of the day, it's just going to require us to show up for ourselves and figure it out. And there's no timeline, there's no rush. We're doing this for life. You know, that's the beauty of being like a woman who self inquires. But, it's absolutely all possible. There's no reason why not. There's literally no reason why not. Perfect. I've loved the timeline piece today that's been really supportive for me. Just like, yeah, breaking out of that, like everything has to happen in one 24 hour period, ending that and all that exists in the week. No, not in the decade. Yeah, I really I really loved that. So thank you. And thank you for your time. This is so beautiful. Yo, yo yo, thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of sex, love and everything in between. Now, if you'd like to stay connected with Megan AI, you can head on over to Instagram and follow me at the Jacob O'Neill. And where can people find you love on at v dot? Megan. Oh amazing. And yeah guys, check out the show notes for all other information in regards to what we've got coming up. And yeah, we're super, super grateful that you guys have taken the time to listen in to this podcast. If you do have any topics or any questions, like I said, hit us up on Instagram and we'll see what we can do. Apart from that, have a beautiful, beautiful rest of your day. Thanks for being here. Big, big love. So glad. And I hope you have a beautiful rest of the day with your family.
