Ep 98: Our Birth Story - Part 3: Q&A

We're getting deep and real about bringing Oisin earthside, answering all your questions about birth, fear, and how partners can dance together in this sacred ceremony of birth. Meg shares her journey of complete surrender while Jacob reveals how he learned to hold space without getting in the way.

This isn't your typical birth story - it's a raw, unfiltered look at what happens when you trust your body's ancient wisdom and let go of everything you think birth "should" be. Whether you're preparing for your own birth journey, supporting someone who is, or just curious about what unassisted birth really looks like, this conversation will change how you think about birth forever.

They also riff off on:
• Why we chose to birth without fear (and how we got there)
• The delicate dance of masculine presence in birth
• How to support without saving
• What real surrender feels like in labor
• Creating an unbreakable birth bubble
• Building trust before the big day
• The art of holding space (without hovering)
• Preparing your nervous system for birth
• Protecting your sacred space
and so much more...

🔥 Love this episode? Don't forget to subscribe and share your thoughts in a review. We love hearing from our listeners!

🔥 Let's stay connected:
• Follow Meg: @the.meg.o
• Follow Jacob: @thejacoboneill

🔥 Want more?
⚡ Grab our relationship freebie: https://meg-oneill.com/relationship-freebie
⚡ Join CLAIMED: https://meg-oneill.com/claimed-immersion
⚡ Join DESIRE DATE: https://meg-oneill.com/desire-date
⚡ Join Full Spectrum Woman: https://meg-oneill.com/full-spectrum-woman
⚡ Connect with Lesley: https://www.instagram.com/lesleypowellbirthkeeper/

🔥  Listen to the other episodes here:
Ep 95: Birth story Part 1: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/ep-95-our-birth-story-part-1/id1667686687?i=1000675946442

Ep 96:Birth Story Part 2: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/ep-96-our-birth-story-part-2/id1667686687?i=1000676851388

Ready to dive deeper? We work with individuals and couples - slide into our DMs to learn more!

#sacredbirth #birthwithoutfear #naturalbirth #divinefeminine #sacredmasculine #birthstory #podcast #intimacy #relationships #consciousness

Transcript

Unknown: 1:08

Yeah, I just in the really challenging moments, because there were, there were intense fucking moments, I just kept coming back to my only job is to surrender. How can I give myself over to this even more, and even in part of the labor, I think this was in my transition. I started saying yes, yes, yes, yes, as the contractions were moving through me. And it was a way of kind of being like, Yes, I give myself over to this, this intensity. Yes, I give myself over to what is happening. I'm not trying to resist it. I'm not trying to push it down. I'm not scared of it. I'm just giving myself so fucking completely to this experience. You music, yo, yo, yo. Lovers, welcome, welcome. Welcome to sex, love and everything in between. We're the O'Neills. You're here with Megan Jacob, and this is the place we have really uncensored conversations about sex, intimacy and relationships. We're super excited you're here. Enjoy this episode. Hey, lover, hi. How are you? I'm good. Yeah, you look amazing. Thank you. You sound amazing. Like my accessory. Love your accessory. What do you call him? Oh, I call him, yeah, oh, she, oh, she. I have a very sexy baby carrier right now, though, you're very happy with that. I'm very happy with it. Thank you. Out of Pope, yep, whatever they're called, they are I love. I was anti them because I thought they're a bit feminine. That's like, I'm a man. I don't carry a baby in the carrier. Then I put it on. I was like, carry a baby in this carrier everywhere I go. Now, when I was pregnant, Jacob was like, I was like, I'm getting a carrier, and we've got the bamboo carrier, and then we'll have this. He was like, I won't be carrying the baby in that. I'll just and I was like, What do you mean? He's like, I'll just be holding the baby wherever we go. I'm like, Okay. And very quickly, I didn't say anything, but very quickly, you realized it's good to have your arms free. And I didn't realize that you had to carry them all the time. Like when you sit them down, they wake up. And, you know, I was like, I thought you carried it for like 10 minutes. They fall asleep, they put them down, yeah, then they sleep for like three hours. But that's not well, our baby doesn't do that. Our baby is a contact never. He loves to sleep upright, yes, on us at all times, but we are back. This is part three of the birth series. How many parts are we doing? Three and then we're doing a postpartum episode now, okay, yeah, so, and we didn't want to do so many, but we got so many birth questions. We weren't going to do this episode, but I thought I would just answer the questions on Instagram stories. But I gave you guys the option on Instagram stories to vote, and everyone wanted, well, not everyone, majority wanted, everyone. Majority wanted a podcast episode. So here we are. We're gonna answer a bunch of your birth related questions, and some of them we kind of covered in, well, we didn't cover them specifically, but there was, like, you know, we told the story in part two. So if you haven't heard the birth story, go back to part one and two. But we're just going to be answering your specific questions today. Yeah, and these will kind of give us the opportunity to, like, hone in on the specific questions as well. I feel like we did a really good job of explaining the the experience of the pregnancy and then the birth. And then this will give us a chance to speak to some of the key themes, I think, which, which are very real in the birth world for a lot of people. Shall We? We? Shall okay. There was a lot of questions similar to this, did you at any stage feel scared during birth? If, yes. How did you navigate this? And there's also some questions around, did you have fears, Jacob, did I have fears? Were these fears present in pregnancy, and did any of them actualize in birth? So just a question about, were we scared? Did we have fear? Yeah, do you want to answer first? No, you don't have fears. Or you don't want to answer first? I don't know. No, I might my answer is, I don't think I had fears in the birth space, like when during the birth I had store a lot of stories come up, and a lot of because of the way that we approached birth and pregnancy without any medical attention, there was a lot of unknown. So I had a lot of, not necessarily fear, but had, like, a lot of like, oh my god, what ifs what if? What if? But then as soon as the labor kicked in, there wasn't, there wasn't fear for me, no. And I didn't just to speak into what I felt from you. I did not feel any ounce of fear in the birth space, and even in pregnancy, you never really projected you were very clear that you wanted Leslie there in the moments that I was like, maybe we could just do it ourselves. Yeah, it was very clear that you wanted you. You wanted some. And they're supporting just the space as well. But I don't think that was coming from a space of fear. That was just more this would feel energetically appropriate, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that wasn't like, yeah. That didn't feel like fear, no, um. And that was like the energetics of a birth space, any kind of ceremony, the energetics are paramount. They're so fucking important. And I did not feel you bringing any ounce of fear into the birth space, which allowed me to just be so fully present in what I was experiencing. Yes, and I think this is the work of both the woman giving birth and her partner is to do the work. And I feel like this is one of the reasons why we have a nine month pregnancy, or about that is to ruthlessly meet any ounce of fear in the body so that you can enter into the ceremony of birth, clear yes, and liberated of any stories that aren't going to serve you and liberated, of, yeah, any fear that's embedded in the body, and you don't have to do that in the nine months, but if you don't do that within that time, or you haven't done that before falling pregnant, I truly believe that is going you are going to meet that In the ceremony of birth. There's no escaping that, or you might find yourself in a birth experience where you're bypassing that ceremony and giving your power away to someone else. Yeah? So yeah, I just I feel like you didn't, I didn't feel any fear from you, and I just think that was such an imperative, important part of that experience that enabled me to have the birth that I had. Yeah, and obviously, like, it's your it's your rite of passage, it's your experience. But a man's energetic state can heavily influence a woman in that birth, in birth, and your environment is so, so important when giving birth. And I was aware that I was a part of that environment, yeah, so even before you were pregnant, obviously I was doing a lot of work to build a nervous system that was capable of being with someone who is going through a initiation, which is thinking, then there's so much of a focus in our culture when a woman is pregnant on fitting out the nursery and painting the nursery wall and making sure the nursery looks perfect and beautiful. And when I think of like I do, birth for me is a rite of passage. It's a ceremony that isn't, that isn't what is necessary in leading up, that isn't the necessary preparation for the rite of passage of birth. Our culture doesn't really speak into the importance of, yeah, ruthlessly scanning our body and looking for fear that might exist around bringing a child into the world and birthing. And this is, again, this is for the woman, and this is for her partner as well. And the other piece that really, like, didn't feed any of those stories we were ruthless in like, scanning and like, I know that you were very clear on making sure your body was, you know, your emotional body, the somatic part where you were very, very clear that you were a vessel that is going to bring this baby into the world healthily and happily. Yeah, but we didn't feed any of those stories with bullshit. We weren't listening to anyone that was giving us information that would create us that would take our power away or make us second. Guess what is, you know, innately, the most natural thing a woman can do, yes. So we were really clear on not on meeting our own fear. And I'll speak into what arose for me in a moment. But yeah, we were so fucking clear if anyone was projecting anything into our space that wasn't ours. Yes, even sometimes I felt that from people. I didn't feel a lot of it, to be honest, no, but I was I, we just weren't available for that. Yeah, like, no one really came and was like, you should have a midwife there, or you should do this. Maybe that's what some of the people around us were thinking. But we energetically sent out the message that we're not available for you questioning this. You bringing your own fear. That's yours, correct? You think if you've got a fear of us birthing at home without anyone there, that's yours. That's not ours. That's not our story. And I think that is like, that's necessary in the way that we chose to birth. If you're choosing to birth unassisted and sovereignly, you cannot be open to the opinions of others, because people are going to have fucking opinions. Our culture is fucking scared of birthing in that way. Our culture is scared of birth full stop. But yeah, you have to create a chamber around your family so that that noise can't get in. Uh huh. I. Yeah, my answer to this question around, did I have fear? Honestly, no, yeah. Like I did not. And I the and I spoken to this in part two, my fear was, Is anything going to happen in the space that is going to penetrate the energetic bubble around my birth. So I shared again in part two, go and listen, if you haven't already, Jacob was running the gathering of men T gon his big men's retreat, and I ended up giving birth that same same weekend, so he didn't go. But because they were running simultaneously, there was this feeling of, oh my gosh. Are you going to be fully present here? Are you going to be needed somewhere else? Am I going to start giving birth and you're not going to like just all of that? That was my biggest fear, and also Django, our dog, my fear was again, something penetrating the birth space, like me going into labor, and then someone having to come and pick up our dog and me feeling energetically, someone penetrating the birth space and the birth ceremony. So they were my fears in terms of like, fears around actually birthing and bringing my baby into the world, I genuinely did not have any fears arise during my pregnancy or during the birth. And I know that's not just because I'm lucky. That's because I have spent the last like my work was not in my pregnancy when I said before, we need to scan the body and see if there's fear there, and then be ruthlessly devoted to meeting and alchemizing that if we want a liberated birth experience. I didn't do that in pregnancy, because I've spent the last 10 years before that doing that, like unfucking myself from from the system, stepping out and taking my power back and for me, realizing that the medical system doesn't have much for me, except for in emergency situations, and really Reclaiming my own power, and really for years and years, doing the work of descending from my head. Used to be a woman that lived in my head, doing the work of descending from my head into my body. And for me, that is the work that prepared me to birth, because I've been devoted to living in my body. I've been devoted to trusting the ancient wisdom of my body, the ancient wisdom of my womb and pussy. I just trusted her. I trusted, I trust. I had a relationship with that part of me and trusted that I trust nature, I trust our physiology. And that's actually surprised me. During pregnancy, I thought things would come up. I was kind of waiting for things to be like, Oh, am I going to be afraid of this when it when's the part of me going to come that, oh my gosh, I'm really afraid of pain, or when's the part of me that's gonna come that's like, oh my gosh, I'm afraid that something bad is gonna happen. And genuinely, that didn't arise for me again, not because I feel like I'm lucky and that just didn't come up then, it's because I've done the work of meeting all of that before this time. Yeah, so I think the work needs to be done at some stage. Sometimes it's during pregnancy, sometimes it's in the mother fucking moment of birth. Other times it's it's before the rite of passage altogether, yeah, at some point you're gonna have to do the work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just want to speak because a few questions also asked, Did I have fear, or was I scared of dying in birth, or did I have fear during the birth? And no, I again, during my pregnancy, I was really meeting for me, for me. I was entering into birth, seeing it as a ceremony. And we've done a lot of plant medicine work. And I know you go into a plant medicine journey. You take the medicine, and then it's just full fucking surrender. There has to be a relationship with the medicine and a trust in the medicine. And you can't go into that experience with fear, or that will be amplified back to you, but you enter into it being willing to go wherever the medicine wants to take you. And so for me, I did the work of, you know, clearing out any fear that I had, and then entering into the ceremony of birth, just letting it take me wherever it wanted to take me. And so there weren't any moments of like, oh my gosh, why is this happening? Or why is this painful, or why is this it was just like I just in the really challenging moments, because there were, there were intense fucking moments, I just kept coming back to my only job is to surrender. How can I give myself over to this even more and even in part of the labor, I think this was in my transition, I started saying yes, yes, yes, yes, as the control. Actions were moving through me, and it was a way of kind of being like, Yes, I give myself over to this, this intensity. Yes, I give myself over to what is happening. I'm not trying to resist it. I'm not trying to push it down. I'm not scared of it. I'm just giving myself so fucking completely to this experience. Yeah, so it's a big no. And I want to honor the women. I'm not saying you know that you should feel wrong if you are having fear arise, or even if a man, when I said, don't bring fear into a birth space if you are the partner of a woman, I stand by that personally, yeah, but I'm saying don't like you're allowed to feel it, just don't project it into the space. And if you would have felt fear, I guarantee that you would have taken yourself out of the space, or you would have, you know, you you wouldn't have gone, oh my god. You wouldn't have tried to change something in my experience to make you feel better. And that's what when someone projects when someone feels fear. That's like, if a family member felt fear about the way that we were choosing to birth, and they were then trying to, like, not feel that fear, they would have told us you shouldn't birth in that way. You need a midwife so they could feel better about it. And so, yeah, you're allowed to have your experience of fear, but don't. Don't project it onto your woman. Don't make it her experience. Don't bring that story. Don't try and change or save her or change the circumstances so that you feel better and safer. Uh huh, yeah. Any more about fear? No, I think you've definitely well and truly covered it. Okay? I think that's such an important piece that question came through like, seven or eight times, yeah, I know. And I think it's like, like, there's this themes to these questions you said before the podcast, like, that's an important one to address, not from a righteous place, but from a hey, like, we didn't have fear because of this is how we've our life has been designed, and what we've done to meet these moments fully. And if you do have fear, then that's okay. But like, there's an opportunity to work with that, whether you whether you've already given birth, whether you want to get you want to get pregnant, you're pregnant. Regardless where you're at. You can constantly be in in relationship with, like, oh, where is the fear of my body? Can I scan and find this part of me? Yeah, and be with this and learn and ask what it's here to show me, and I also just want to speak into what we said before around like the nor tuning out from any noise. That's so if you're listening to this and you're yet to give birth, or you want to give birth again in the future, and you want to trust birth, go and fucking turn up the volume on women's voices that trust birth. Like for me, I brainwashed myself with the story that birth was safe. We're not even safe birth. I could trust birth, and birth was going to happen in my body, whether I liked it or not, and my only job was to let go and allow birth to happen. So if you if you want to have if you want to trust birth, turn down the noise of people that do not trust birth and put yourself in circles or listen to podcasts that really deeply trust birth and trust a woman's body and physiology. Uh huh. Okay, next kind of theme of questions was, how did we connect during the birth and how did Jacob find reading Meg's cues during the different phases of birth? Yeah, do you want to keep this one off? I would say. How do we connect for me, and this is why I loved your the way you showed up for me in birth, it didn't feel like a shared experience. It felt like I was having an experience and you were witnessing me, yes. So it wasn't necessarily about how can we create deep intimacy in this moment as we're sharing this experience? I was just so fucking in in it. I was so in my body. I was so in the experience that I wasn't like looking to connect with you. You weren't connecting like you weren't there were it wasn't an outward energy. No, you were connecting in with yourself. This was your journey. Like, that's what I like people like, yeah, the man, you know, if he's yes and I was connecting. I wasn't necessarily connecting. I wasn't trying to be deeply connected to you. I was really just being the container and giving you full permission to be whatever you needed to be, yes and not. And literally, my practice was to stay, stay, stay hollow, to stay clean of any story, judgment or fear that could have potentially been projected into or onto you. Yeah, and that, then for me, like the dynamic that we created was like. You are going through a rite of passage, and I'm here to witness and hold the field of highest timeline, highest potential, and try and deep trust and almost like, how do I say this? Mostly just like, hold that hold that vibration. I don't want to make it too spiritual, but yeah, like vibrationally, ensuring that this space was appropriate for you to have the birth experience. Yeah, and not let, not let myself, not let anyone else, and just tend to the edges. So the way that I would connect with you is like, Kate, your water bottle is full. Okay, yep. You want to hold my hand. Okay, yep, all right. Food, okay, yep, Jen, go out of the room. Okay, yep. Feel the feel the birth. Okay, yep. Towel, okay, yeah. Like, I was just aware of what was moved, what the space needed, and then I would just act appropriately, or act accordingly. When you say, like, oh yeah, your water bottles filled up. You weren't even saying that. No, you weren't going, Meg, I filled up your water bottle. Meg, I'm filling up the birth pill. Meg, I'm doing this. You and I said before, I was just focused on going down and inward, like descending into my body. You were just doing whatever you knew to do to support me in that process. So it wasn't as if we were, like, gazing into each other's eyes and trying to connect over this experience. It was, how can Meg just be so deeply in this and how can you support that, to like, support me, to make that happen. And in the moments where I did like, there was a lot when I was in the birth pool, I was like, I was super solo in the shower for hours and hours and hours a little boy snoring, but when I came out into the birth pool, I was I was touching you for majority of the time I was in the birth pool, but it was more. I needed your hands. I needed to grip I needed to rub my head against your hands. I needed the times I made out with you. It wasn't, oh, let's share this intimate moment as our sun comes out the world, it was, let me eat your face, because I need to meet this intensity with more intensity. If there was a time where I experienced fear, it was when you said, I want to make out with you, and you just literally, just like, started devouring my face. That was like, I think she's gonna bite my lip off. I'm scared to put my tongue anywhere near her mouth. That was the only time I probably really, you asked me what feels like, Oh, my that was the only time I got slightly overwhelmed. Yeah. Was when I felt like I was gonna be dragged down into the pool and drowned and eaten whole, yeah, by the dark feminine. The dark feminine. Um, yeah. And then even just talking about, Oh, do you want to just speak to, like, picking up on my cues? Or maybe, how did you know what was needed in each moment? Or how, how did you, how did you decide how to how to be in the space, or what to do in the space? I literally think about everything as a hero's journey. Like this might seem like slightly left of center, but like there's 17 stages to the hero's journey, and I just track that whenever I'm watching a movie, whenever I'm in an experience, like, not to say that this was like watching a movie, but like she's at stage four, transition to stage five of the areas I'm not narrating that I'm just like, attuning to. Oh, this is the point where she's going to need this. So this is the point. This is the point in the journey where I need to actually pull back. Yeah, all right. And like you going in the shower was, was the perfect point where you went, like you went inward, and you had to have a moment to really be with yourself. And almost like in that shower, you weren't saying these things, but what I took from you being in that shower was like, You are now arriving at the point of no return. This is happening, and I'm going to reconcile that, and I'm going to ground in, and when I come out, I'm on the other side of the threshold. I know that I'm coming out, and I'm about to hop in this pool and I'm going to have a baby, yeah. And there was almost like a not an acceptance, but a readiness that came online when you came out of that shower. And I think if I had been in there asking you questions and infiltrating the space and really tarnishing the experience for you, I would have not you would not have gone as deep as you needed to go. I would have kept you tethered to kind of the surface and needed you to come up and say, I'm like, oh, what's down? Then you come up, just, there's this, this and this, and then you go back down. And, yeah, but, but what are you doing now and then you'd have to come back up and be this constant, like, re three stabilizing and having to, like, just like when you freedom, you've got to equalize. You have to keep equalizing and coming back up. And I would have really just caused, caused a wobble in the in the process. So for that, it was like, Cool Meg's in the shower. She's got this. And that was a moment where I had to go, do I trust this woman? And that's the thing that I believe a lot of men really struggle with. And what I think is actually at the core issue of the greater i. Collective suffering is that we don't trust the feminine. And this is my journey with the birth experience, and what I'm starting to write about my I'm currently writing, and it's got, you know, I'm tracking it back through my lineage. You know, all of the times that the feminine wasn't trusted, and all the times the feminine wasn't listened to, and all the times that the feminine did miraculous things that were never really, deeply, truly honored for what they did. So in that moment when you're in the shower, yeah, it's just you hopping into the shower, and I'm out here feeling the birth pool, but what internally was shifting for me on like not just an energetic level, but like a generational level, was I deeply trust the feminine, and I trust its ability to guide and create life. And I do not need to interfere or intervene, and I do not need to place my hands on that experience. I can witness it, and I can facilitate a container. I can facilitate this without needing to facilitate this, if that makes sense. And that was the humility, like, Oh, she doesn't get me in there, like, rubbing her back, or, you know, breathing with her, or somatically clear, anything she needs to feel the birth pool. And I trust her. And like, I didn't, I didn't, like, remove myself from this person, like, I'm not gonna go and sit down on the couch and, you know, checked out. And I think this is just a really important piece. You weren't. I don't. I don't even remember you asking me how I was throughout the entire experience. And I appreciated that, because, like you said, if you would have constantly been checking in, how are you how are you feeling? Are you okay? Are you okay? That would have been more about you, yeah. And if you felt that I needed that, you would have maybe brought that, but that would have been more about you, like, are you? Tell me you okay? Are you okay? You didn't ask me that at all, but at the same time, you weren't lying on the couch fully checked out at the experience, I could feel. I knew like that would have felt like shit, but I knew you were out here, and I knew you were in your own ceremony with this, and I knew you were holding and I knew you were practicing the trust piece, you would have definitely felt at any point in time. If I had hopped on my phone, you would have your fucking phone. And that's the piece like, just because I wasn't hands on and deeply intertwined with you in those moments, that doesn't mean that I had the it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't free time for me to go and sit on the couch and watch a movie. It wasn't free time for me to come and, like, scroll my phone or to go go outside and do something and all just get something, just get some chores done. No, the ceremony is the ceremony. And energetically, I was connected to you, but I wasn't enforcing any of my will onto you, yeah, and that's a really and this is why men really need to do their work leading into any kind of rite of passage that you will be holding, that you are a part of, or you will be holding, like whether it's marriage, whether it's birth, whether it's any of these kinds of things, you need to train your nervous system to be aware of the intensity that occurs in these moments and not get not try to down regulate someone else when they need to actually be in that activated state. And you get to, like, just expand around that because you're when you need a window of tolerance that is greater than probably what you've got right now, if you haven't done the birth, yeah, and that's the thing. There you go. You go. I was just gonna say a woman, what a woman needs, and I'll just speak from what I felt in the experience. But I feel like I can speak for the women. I feel like I can expand this out. Do what a woman needs in birth is to be reflected back to her, her power. Yeah, she doesn't need someone being like, are you okay? Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god. She needs, she needs to move through that initiation. It's only her, only she can walk through the fire. No one can do that for her, no one can walk through the intensity of birth for her. And our culture tries. Our culture tries to our culture does it takes that initiation, it tries to take the fire away from the woman so she doesn't have to walk through it. But I truly believe, biologically and physiologically, we are designed, even spiritually, we are designed your job as have the band walking through that fire isn't trying to dull the fire or prepared for mother get rid of the fire. It's just to let your woman know I believe in you. You can walk through that motherfucking fire. I am here. I am witnessing you. I mean, all of you right now, walking through that fire, you've got this Yes, and that might sound like words, that might just be like your presence in this space, but that's like the energetic piece, knowing that you can't save her from, from from it. Yeah, just like in the intensity of motherhood, you can't save her from. You know the journey that she's gonna move through there too? Yeah, I'm just thinking like, if you're someone who's listened to some polarity teachings, and you've probably gotten a little rigid in your ways, like the birth space is really a dance of the masculine feminine within yourself and within your partner, and knowing how to move more fluidly in ceremony. Be everything time. Time wobbles. Space wobbles. Things become like, quite lucid, and you have to be willing to play in that world. And if you are coming in, you're trying to lead your woman, because you're masculine and you need to, like, direct her, you have completely and utterly fucking lost the plot. Yeah, bow down to the feminine that you you will be invited to literally, yeah, being to practice reverence. And reverence is really I, I am here in service to you, but I also deeply trust you and where you are going. Yeah, and the way that I look at this, if you want to apply it to nature, is that what is actually guiding the war the river. Is it the water, or is it the banks? And for me, the water is actually creating the it actually, if you have a look at any time that the water will spill over and continue the path first, then it'll find its way, and then the banks will appear. So if we want to talk about feminine leadership, Oh, I love that, yeah. So yeah, if you pour, if you pour water, banks don't just appear. It'll find its course. And that's why you need to actually have a a dynamic nervous system as a man that isn't just like, this is this, and this is this and this is this. That's how we've gotten to the position we are with birth, with all of this medical approach, which I don't really agree with. And for me, if you do the work to understand the feminine within yourself as a man, and you what your masculine qualities are, and then actually, like exist in a more of a place of wholeness. You don't ever need any you don't need anything from your woman when she's going through these moments, because if you need something from her, you're going to be taking her out of what of her experience. I need you to be okay. I need you to tell me what's going on. I need to know if you're dilated. I need to know if you're you need a drink. If you need to know something, you've immediately, for me, you've immediately lost the frame, if they handed over. I need you to make it. I need you to tell me what's going on, rather me witness and trust your guidance. And to then feel my feel, feel myself in the space, and then it tend to the edges. Water, bottle, towel, trusting yourself, I think, is a big thing for a man, trusting, yeah, which is the same, like, there were probably moments where, especially at the beginning of my labor, where you were doing the like, applying pressure to my low back, and sometimes it was like, not enough pressure at all. And I'd be like, I didn't have when I was moving through a contraction, I didn't have the capacity to talk a lot, so I'd just be like, harder, or like, ah, like, ah, too hard. And that probably would have sounded if I used that tone or said any that in any other context, it would have been harsh. But there also has to be a thing of trust yourself, but also don't take things personally. Like, massive if you're touching a woman and thinking, Oh, this will make her feel so good right now, and then she's like, fuck off. Like, well, fuck off, and don't take it personally. That didn't happen so much in the birth but when I've been sometimes, I was gonna say that that's also practicing that within the relating space of like, you're phenomenal at this, and have been for many years within our partnership at like, trying something and being willing to fail, yes, but, but knowing that it's more meaningful for you to trust yourself instead of sit back and wait for wait to be like, oh, what does she need? Or what is like? Oh, I'd rather make the wrong decision than no decision at all. Yes, and that's the and that's the willingness piece, yeah, but um, if you, if you are not what I would say, if you don't feel deeply connected to your partner before birth, then your level of attunement will really, really be tested if you haven't making the time to connect with each other leading into the birth so for the nine months, like we spent a lot of time together, We connected a lot, and we went through some really, we cleared our nervous systems. There's a lot of things that we had to work through, not major things, but just sticking points that were like, Yeah, we were being called to the gates of initiation. So I would say, if I was to, like, just finalize my statement. Is like, make sure that you are prioritizing your connection leading into the birth and then in the birth space when you arrive. Your responsibility as a man is to attune to the field and trust the your woman who is having her experience. And also not withhold but let your, any of your reservations, move, be felt and move through you, and do not let them contaminate the space. And that's, yeah, that's the work. I just want to speak into one more thing around connection, just something that I know you were really intentional about, is that when oshi was birthed, when I birthed him, you didn't jump into the pool, and you were actually and if you watch the footage, you're you're you were so intentional about just letting me have that moment and letting me and I was looking at you, and we were making eye contact, and it was so you were like, you know, managing Django, as you started to jump around and get excited, but it wasn't as if you were disconnected. But you weren't trying to go like, Oh, give me. Let me touch him. Let me touch you. I didn't touch him for like, an hour, probably, I, like, literally, let I might have just stroked his head or touched him slightly, I think sometime in the first little few minutes. But I didn't try to take him or get in between you and him. Yeah, I didn't, like, I was like, this is and because I listened to the podcast of, like, the free birth. But it's like, oh, like, this is I'm just thinking about. I was like, Yeah, imagine if someone tried to, like, come up, like, when I do vision quest. Imagine if you came up and sat with me for the last morning after I've just been through three days of, like, going through, like, the throes of fasting and being with them, you know, the challenge of the initiation, and you come up and you try to sit with me and talk to me while I'm trying to, like, embrace the last, like the almost like the final moments of gold before I step through the the the completion, and step back into the the known world. And I'm like, imagine that. Imagine how much, how frustrating that would feel. Yeah. I'm like, Ah, this is like, this is her moment, and this is her and no Sheen's moment, and it's theirs. And if I can let them have that, what does that mean moving forward? Like, how does this then influence our relationship? And we actually have this healthy and I feel like we've had a really beautiful postpartum experience because of, I really am proud of how I've held myself and not tried to get in between. I've never felt like I'm trying to get in between you two, or I'm not getting enough. And another podcast that I just recorded with a guy, Dan Thomas, we were talking about like self becoming self resourcing, or something along those lines. And it's like, where am I trying to get something from you, or from ocean that I could actually find within myself and actually like now is the time that I need to be even more capable of that, because we're moving through like the this season, which is, you know, things are changing. We're finding a new way of being. I love that. Sorry. I definitely overtook you then. No, that's fine. I really loved that. I just knew that was something you intentional about. And so yeah, in watching the footage back, it was like, oh yeah. Like, I, it's, I'm, I'm making eye contact with you, but I'm still just having my moment with him. Yeah, and I stayed in the pool for an hour holding him. Like, it felt like 10 minutes, but it was an hour, just like spending that first hour, him on my breasts, like holding him and still connecting with you, connecting with Leslie in the space. But it was very much. It wasn't all this, like an intimacy of us three. It was just still the two of us. And I think that was you're cracked wide open, yeah. Like you were peaking. I was peaking. Like whatever the is it dopamine or the oxytocin? Oxytocin? Yeah. Like, you were high AF. I really was. And imagine if I came in tried to take that, like, take the the experience, oh yeah, infiltrate that experience for my own game. Like, no. Like, that was the beauty was in me. The beauty for me was in the witnessing of that connection between you and OSH. And that was the piece. It's like, the beauty isn't in me getting to hold him or touch him. It's witnessing the connection. And it's like, cool, like, this is the, yeah, this is the the next generation. Like, this is the thing that's here to carry on my, you know, my blood and what I stand for. And it's like, how can I be that from network from the very beginning? So that was cool. And what else I want to say? One more thing, sorry I wanted to say, I just, I just think, like, it's so easy for us, it's so easy for men to want to help. And that's what I want to really say. Like, don't feel like for men, like, if you are feeling like, I need to help. I need to do something like that, that can be your own discomfort with. Like, being in the seat of the witness and stillness is a great practice for that. But like, for me, it's like, oh, like, this is all I have to do right now is see the beauty in this moment. Don't need to quickly run and grab the house. I don't need to all of a sudden get up and start cleaning up straight away. Like, let this moment be enough. Yeah, don't stop. Don't get up and start cleaning up and like, okay, yep, onto the next thing. Like, there's no rush, and there was no urgency, and that for that hour, it felt timeless. That was like one of those special hours of my life, and I and I was getting to witness, you know, the miracle of birth? Yeah, there was a photo that is Leslie's favorite that she took where you were leaning back on the on the bookshelf, yeah, and I'm still in the pool with OSH, and you were just like, staring at us both. And I think that encapsulates that, that hour after birth really beautifully. And again, it wasn't as if you weren't, you weren't like, you know, trying to be like, to get something from that moment. But you also weren't checked out. You weren't like, Oh, I'm not part you were, you were making yourself known in the space. It as the witness. And it's the whole thing which made there was deep intimacy in that. There was deep intimacy in in you witnessing me in that. Yeah, okay. Next questions, yes. Let me see. What have we got? We've used that one. There was some questions around, How did I manage the pain? What tools did you feel were most useful during the different phases of birth? I um, yeah, so around like, managing the pain. My answer to that around, like, How did I manage the pain? I didn't like, I don't believe we're meant to manage pain in the birth experience, I met the birth experience with I'm not here to manage it or make the pains go away or make the pains less. I'm here to meet the pain, or I saw it as intensity, because for me, it wasn't that pain of, like, ah, even though right at the end, when he was like, just about before then I thought my clearance were going to split into exploding, there was that moment of I went, Ah, but it was more like a descent, like a descent into deep intensity and and the deepest intensity I've ever felt in my entire life, in my body. But I wasn't trying. And I think this is why I had such a profound birth experience is I wasn't trying to escape or manage the pain. I was going into it. I was meeting it. I was saying yes, yes, yes to it. I was welcoming it. And this is a huge part of what I teach in all of my work, especially in full spectrum woman and my sexuality work. It's how can we like but radically accepting? What is how can we and I teach women to say, Hi, you're welcome here. You're welcome here, whether that's intensity or grief or rage or whatever it is. A lot of the time the things we're most uncomfortable with, we're going to try and push away or get rid of or manage. We try and manage our emotions, manage our grief, manage No, we go the fuck into it, and we let it annihilate us. We let it obliterate us, and we see who the fuck we are on the other side. And that's that to me is walking through the fire. That to me is initiation. That to me is rites of passage. You're not meant to hold yourself back or manage your way through it. You're meant to let it obliterate you and crack you the fuck open. You're powerful. What did Leslie remember when you were talking about the 10s machine? What did Leslie say? Like, this is a good someone was suggesting that I get a 10s machine, which is, I don't actually even know. I think it's like, I think it vibrate, it does something to kind of manage the pain, yeah, and you put it on you, and a few people have suggested it. And my my physical response was a no. My intuition was saying, like, I was just like, No. That doesn't feel true for me. But I messaged Leslie to be and Leslie was our birth keeper, I messaged Leslie to be like, Hey, what's your feelings around this? I just keep coming into my field. I think I told her I was a no, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. And she came back to me, voice recorded and said, Hi, darling. Hello, darling. Hello, darling. We love you, Leslie. We know you're listening. She said my question to you would be, why are you trying to manage the pain, or why are you trying to escape the pain? Yeah, and then she knows, and then she went into more but, and it was so I knew. I already knew she was so fucking incredible, but that moment, I was like, Yes, this woman is so fucking on the same page as me and the same page as us that the experience of birth and the things that I'm gonna feel aren't things to manage. And it's not, oh my God, let me grab all the tools that are not gonna have me feel the thing. It's like, No, you're here to feel the thing. How can you just feel the thing and surrender to feeling the thing? Like, so we didn't use a tensor Jean. There was a point. And I'm this is like, I'm not taking away from birth, but like, when I did my 100 case, there was a point where my feet felt like people were stabbing knives in the bottom of them. And I kept telling you, do you want me to go home and get you actual shoes? Yeah, but there was something about meeting that pain and like, and actually, every time I'd step I'd just imagine, like, a knife going all the way up my foot and just like, but like, like, allowing the pain to, like, not just stay I wasn't, like, resist the pain would come all the way up and through my body. And I could, I remember that feeling of being like, holy shit, like, this is this is intense. This is intense. But the the more I welcomed it, the more I was able to be with it, and that's what I'm hearing. Like you were you're not saying that there wasn't sensations that were intense, but you wouldn't there wasn't any real point where you resisted those, and rather than come through me, move through me, allow them to come through your body. And like I think that says a lot about the the work that you've done to create a healthy like, energetic and emotional flow through your entire body, so you can use your full somatic range, rather than it just being located in your genitals or located in your belly or located wherever that that sensation is, you're able to, like, ripple it out into your body and allow it to, like, literally, alchemize. Yeah, I love that you said that, because for me, and if you're a woman that wants to give birth but is yet to give birth, fuck, I could not recommend best birth prep, like sexuality work and feminine embodiment. Work like get into your fucking body. Learn how to breathe and sound and move with your emotions. Welcome. Learn to live a life where you're living, you're existing, you're deeply rooted in your body, in your pussy, in your womb, and you know how to move through the world from that space. That's birth prep, right? Learning how to welcome the whole spectrum of emotions like that is the ultimate birth prep. To me, not and sorry, but like, not like, Hypno birthing affirmations and things like that. Again, I feel like they take you out of it's like, oh, how can I, you know, get out of this experience, hypnotize myself so I'm not having that. No, like, how can you fucking welcome it? This is exactly what Dana and I were talking about around like the the shift from like mindset into like embodiment, like into like descent, work, yes, and that's what sexuality, you know? What I've noticed is a lot of people in the you know, developing themselves, growth spirituality, they'll develop their their mind, or they'll go from the head to the heart. But for the people that I see that are deeply embodied and really like, live the work and live the the teachings that they've absorbed. They go from the heart down into the body, like right down into the lower part, whether it's their genitals, their legs, all the way through their nervous system. And that, for me, is like the piece that I the sexuality work has been so powerful for for you, for me, for our relationship, and then for the birth of this little dude. Yeah, and I second that, I think if you can explore your, you know, the your sexuality, and go into that, and how many times have we spoken on this podcast around like us having sex and then you like wailing or crying and allowing it to move through you? Totally the same tools I learned to bring into my sexual experiences, whether this is self pleasure or partnered sex is the same tools I use to move through my birth. Who is I'm going to breathe with this sensation, I'm going to sound. I'm just going to be with this sensation in such a deeply embodied way. And then a contraction would finish, then it was like, okay, my only work is when that next one comes to breathe and sound and move with it, not to resist it, not to wish it wasn't there, not to like, like someone saved me from this. It was no okay, here's another one. Let's fucking go. Let's go. Okay, you're amazing. Thank you. I'm really fucking loving this conversation so much. I feel like there's pieces of even though we've spoken about it for hours already on the podcast, there's pieces that like, yeah, they're just being activated. We had a, I don't know if you've seen that message from a lady. She messaged us both a voice note. I haven't listened to it. Yeah, but the essence of she's like, Thank you for telling your story. Because I didn't know I I didn't know what you guys knew. And I wish I had of I wish I had it. Yeah, and she, she said, you know, the experience that she had wasn't, you know, the baby's healthy, and she's all that. So she's like, I can see now where I gave my power away. I can see now where the fear was more powerful than my belief in trust in myself, and that was because I didn't expose, I didn't keep my environment clean. She was like, speaking about she's like, Thank you for telling this story, because I now know how I'm going to approach birth moving forward. So at any point like this, these stories and the way that we're speaking, it's not to sit on a pedestal or above anyone. It's like, this is this birth experience we had was deeply intentional. Even before we realized we're conscious of what we were doing, why we were going and doing these ceremonies, or this, this work, it was all very much around finding deeper connection to ourself, which then led to our, yeah, not our, I don't want to say much about our attunement and our ability to move in a space and meet what what is actually there and not run from it, not avoid it, not manage it, not deal with it, not outsource it. Because we know the value of going through the experience and coming out the other side. We know that that because we've done it so many times and we've supported each other to like, actually like, integrate it so many times after a ceremony where maybe you feel wobbled, or I feel wobbled like, what the what the what the what the and we land it, we've built a relationship with initiation and rite of passage that says I know What I'm stepping into is unknown, and I, and I trust myself to meet that, because on the other side of that is is beauty, on the other side of that is rapture, is ecstasy, is bliss. On the other side of that is like timelessness. Spacelessness, their presence is what we're going to experience. And that's that's because we have trained ourselves in that way of living, and it's not about better or worse, it's just about, can you bring more awareness to this? So you are choosing exactly what it is that you want, and not letting anyone else tell you. And yeah, override your knowing. You know, we share everything on the podcast anyway, so we're always going to share the birth story. But a huge part of why I'm so passionate about sharing this is because I would not have birthed in the way that I birthed if it wasn't for the many women that came before me and chose to trust their bodies and chose to trust birth and then share their stories. Yes, because again, I flooded myself with free birth society podcast before I gave birth. And yeah, it I've had so many messages from women, either women that are yet to give birth, or women like the woman you were talking about, who you know didn't know. And then now can see, wow, if I do this again, I'm gonna fucking trust myself. And this is a provision slip to trust myself. So, yeah, I fucking love that. That's so moving to me. Okay, I think we've just got maybe one more question. Let me see what we've got. Answer this in three words, how did you feel immediately after the little one came out? Calm. Content and calm content and ready. I I didn't have the big I didn't cry, I didn't, like, explode and like, have this like, moment of magical. I was like, of course, it was a real it for me, it felt very normal. Was it like, sorry to interrupt you, but it was like, was it like, our wedding, you know, like both of us kind of cried when we saw each other. Then when we were during the ceremony, I just could not stop smiling. And we were just, we were just locked eyes the entire ceremony, like smiling the biggest smiles at each other, just in complete, well, I felt in complete joy, and that surprised me about the day, and I cried a little when OSH came out, but it was more just like, Oh my God, he's here, he's here, he's here. And then I was just like, like, you said, Hi. I was so ecstatically joyful and high and yeah, that's that surprised me too. I thought I would be like, yeah, a blubbering mess. I thought I was gonna like, yeah, like, bore like, like, ugly cry. But I was like, calm, content. And I was like, I was like, this is and now we begin this journey. It felt like it felt more like the beginning of something that I've been ready and waiting for for a later time. Yeah. And didn't feel like I yeah, I didn't feel, I think if I hadn't felt more fear, I probably might have felt more relief, relief, yeah, whereas, because I was I felt grateful, but I didn't feel like that, that that, that I didn't need to have a huge release of relief, yeah, in the form of, like, crying. So it was um, yeah, the three words are cool, cool, calm, content and just like, yeah, and grateful. Okay, next, just these are just all the other ones from before. Were there any parts of us that were hesitant to go unassisted with your birth? My answer is no that. And the more I listened, I just felt. This as a calling. I just knew this was the way we're meant to birth. And then the more and more I listened to stories of women birthing unassisted or free birthing, it became so fucking clear to me that I wanted nothing to do with being in a hospital, or nothing to do with having a medical midwife in my space, because that felt less safe to me. I believe women should birth where they feel safest. I felt safest at home, not with a medical provider, because I felt like I wanted a physiological birth. I wanted no one else to touch my baby. The only way that I truly believed that was going to happen was if no one that was licensed, or had an agenda, was going to be in that space. So for me, there was never any question about the way that I wanted to do that. Yeah? And I think that what I hear in that is like you wanted to be respected and empowered by those that were in the space, rather than have someone else tell you what was going on with your body, yeah? Or telling me that, oh my gosh, it's taking too long we need to get transferred. Like, honestly, in my opinion, that's bullshit. Your our body births babies like birth like, what is true in ceremony? What is too long in the ceremony? Yeah. And I believe complications unfold when a woman is put into fear, and when a woman is told you're taking too long, or your baby's too big, or this needs to happen in the next hour, or you're going to get transferred, that fear, the closure that that then puts a woman's body into or contraction like what unfolds from that creates complications. I believe, I believe there's such things as emergencies in birth, but I don't believe they are at the degree in which we're told they exist, from which women are told this is an emergency, when really it's just the care providers not fully trusting the woman on birth. Totally okay. I have very strong opinions about this. Now. Did any concerns arise around wild pregnancy and birth? No, the felt. It felt more every time. The more we looked into it, the more aligned. It felt like I was like, this is what, this is what feels right. Okay, let's finish with this. Let's finish on our birth keeper. So how long did we know that our birth keeper for? And I would love to know how the birth keeper helped, any pros and cons. So, you know, in Cinderella, when the fairy godmother turns up and changes her entire life for the better, that's what Leslie did for us. She was our fairy godmother. And yes, that's all I have to say about that. Leslie was amazing. No cons like again Leslie, and even I think some people still feel, when we talk about having a birth keeper, still believe that she was there and she delivered the baby in some way, or she, no, she was an energetic support. Leslie walked in an hour before we gave birth. She told me, I gave birth. She held my hands. She whispered in my ear, go to the place you know you can go to. She took photos. She took videos. So her energetic holding was, I'm not saying she didn't do anything. I'm saying her energetic holding was amazing, but it was what she didn't do that was the most fucking important thing in the space. She didn't come in being like, here I am. She didn't try and say things that weren't needed. She didn't try and check me. She didn't touch me when I didn't want to touch me. No, she was just there, present in the space, just like you unwavering. And Leslie has done the work to clear herself of fears around birth. She trusts birth. She trusts women. So she knew she was going to be there for however long it fucking took. She was never going to tell me, Hey, Meg, this is taking too long, the babies like, let's if come to push, she would never have said, Let's transfer. That was always going to be an in an unassisted birth. That's always the woman's choice. There's never anyone else saying there's something wrong here or there's something here, you know. So all pros for Leslie. Fucking love Leslie. How long did we know her beforehand? A month? Yeah, a month, because we had another birth keeper, and that fell through. So we met her at 36 weeks. So five weeks probably, and we had probably three sessions with her, where she came to our house and asked our own birth stories and got to know us as a couple, and got to speak through any fears, which, again, we didn't really have much of, but I got to share around my fear, around T Gon, and is it going to overlap and he's going to Jacob, going to be available? And and it didn't. It didn't like I said it was never going to from the beginning, but we just got to really connect. And there was such it. Usually Leslie would spend. A majority of a woman's pregnancy, getting to know the family, but there was such a deep intimacy there immediately for us, and then she supported us just until last week, like seven weeks postpartum, and she'll probably just keep coming. It's gonna be our best thing. Yeah, we love it. But the pieces that I really loved about Leslie, that I there was this really strong alignment of values and a respect for Meg's experience. You really respected Meg as a mother, as the mother that she was becoming, and she didn't once ever make it about her, which I think is a really key thing to look for if you're wanting someone to hold space for you, if you are seeing this as a ceremony in a rite of passage, not just something that you're doing, the that that piece, that she was very clear on, this is Meg's experience, and I'm here in service to that, not I'm the I'm the professional, I'm the expert. She wasn't making, she did not make it about her once, and that is so important, because there's energetics in the birth space. I that I've even felt where people try and make it about them. They need to validate their own sense of, like, grandiosity. But for so that was really important. She had, like, the qualities that I was looking for was incredibly nurturing, because I was holding, you know, you, and I wanted her to then be able to come in and because I was, I was holding and I knew I wasn't gonna be able to be deeply nurturing in ways that a woman who's been through this could be so for me, like she's She is a mother. She's incredibly nurturing. She never once made it about herself, and she understood the energetics as well as the the the the physical physicality of birth, and even the way that she came into the room, even the way that she she knocked and checked before she stepped in, not once did she try and touch, oh, sheen or pick up something. She was so, so conscious of what her energy was doing in the space. I remember when we were after we burnt the cord, and if this was whenever we took the placenta out and looked it was like the next day or the day after, she's like, darling. Do you mind if I can I touch the placenta? I was like, of course. And I was like, Oh, wow. How many times has have women just had their placenta grabbed or pulled out of them, their baby, someone's grabbing their baby before even they get to Yeah, and Leslie didn't touch her sheen for a month. No, she, I think a week. I think she, it was when I did the Yoni steaming. Oh, yeah, maybe yeah, it was, it was at least a week. And she'd come for multiple visits before she touched him? Yeah. And, like, yeah. And we didn't say, Don't touch him. That was just her choosing, that she was respecting. I don't need to touch him. I'm gonna respect his energy field, and I'm gonna respect, you know, the What's she wasn't trying to go, Oh, give me baby cuddles. I wanna touch him already. No, she was like, I'm just here as a witness to this family having given birth. So there's what I what I just to wrap it up, I guess. And we should put Leslie's Instagram handle in the yes, yeah, oh my gosh, anyone just DM me and I can send you, but yeah, we'll also put a bullet. But essentially, the the piece was like there was a strength, that there was a gentle strength. It was this gentle strength. And that's something, you know, I Leslie, you know, she's, she's just this little pocket rock. She's this amazing woman, but like, there was a strength that was undeniable in her that didn't ever flood the space or become about that strength was never about her. It was always filtered through a deep humility for birth, not just you, but for birth in general. And she has reverence for birth. And that, for me, is what you know. I don't know much about birth keeping but from what my experience with Leslie, I can understand the reverence that that is required for you to be able to move in a space the way that she did. And that's you know that, and that's why you know it's another one that the reasons that the birth occurred the way it did, because we had we were very clear on trusting that the right person would be in this space with us. Oh, okay, how good that's. I think all the questions done. Okay, let me just quickly. I want to answer this one quickly. Did I have any moments of pain free, ecstatic and orgasmic birth? No, it wasn't that. It was like, and I think I moved into the birth thinking I I'm probably, if I breathe the right way, it's going to be pleasure filled. No, it wasn't. It was fucking intense as shit. But again, there was something. It was liberating. There it wasn't pleasure, it wasn't pleasurable. But I also don't think I wouldn't call it painful. It was It was intense, and I was with that intensity. I. There were moments, even in the shower, there were moments where I was, like, stimulating my clitoris to like, you know, open and like, be with that energy. But it wasn't as if I was like, Ah yes, like, pleasure. It was more just like, I'm going to stimulate this and open and see what unfolds. And again, the kissing and the making out. That was more like, this is intense. I want to meet it with other intensity. And there were also between the contractions or surges, there was such ecstatic moments, like when I was singing and you were patting my head and I was going, I'm bringing my baby here. I'm bringing my baby here, and really close to him being born in between the surges felt so glorious and so just like, timeless and beautiful. But the actual surges were, yeah, I wouldn't say I had an orgasmic birth. And, you know, again, I don't, I don't think I'm the intensity was the fire I needed to be with, yeah, well, that's there, like, you said, walking through the fire. That's yeah. And I think also, and I said this on a podcast episode leading up to the birth that I wasn't, I wasn't attached to, I'm gonna have this orgasmic birth. I knew it was an option. Or, like, women do have orgasmic births, but I wasn't going, like, that's the top of the hierarchy of births, and I hope I get that one the best, yeah, and I'm gonna try and make that happen. No, I was just Yeah, so I'm glad that I surrendered to what was alive, rather than trying to make it feel orgasmic. Yes, yeah, okay. How good all finished. That was epic. That was a really fun one. Thanks for joining us. We're gonna be, um, we'll be back next week with a postpartum Q A episode. So all postpartum things, all the slow cooked foods, yeah, all the slow cooked food and rice, that's what I've been living off for eight weeks. Big. Love, family. Love you guys. Peace, yo, yo, yo. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of sex, love and everything in between. Now, if you'd like to stay connected with Meg and I, you can head on over to Instagram and follow me at the Jacob O'Neill, and where can people find you lover, at B dot, Meg, dot. O amazing. And yeah, guys, check out the show notes for all other information in regards to what we've got coming up. And yeah, we're super, super grateful that you guys for taking the time to listen in to this podcast. If you do have any topics or any questions, like I said, hit us up on Instagram and we'll see what we can do. Apart from that, have a beautiful, beautiful rest of your day. Thanks for being here. Big, big. Love you.