Sex, Love & Everything In Between

Ep 95: Our Birth Story Part 1

• Meg and Jacob O'Neill • Season 2 • Episode 95

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In this week’s episode of Sex, Love & Everything in Between, Meg O’Neill shares the story of her journey to becoming a mom. From finding out she was pregnant to making big choices like having a wild pregnancy (no doctors, no scans, just trusting her body), Meg opens up about what it felt like to prepare for their baby, Oisin, to come into the world.

Meg and Jacob talk about learning to handle their worries, staying strong together, and trusting that everything would be okay. Meg explains how they created a safe, loving space at home to welcome their son, showing that birth isn’t just about the moment he arrives, but the whole journey leading up to it.

They also riffed off on:

•Choosing a Different Path: Why Meg and Jacob decided on a wild pregnancy and free birth.

•Handling Fear with Love: How Jacob faced his worries and stayed present for Meg.

•Staying Calm in the Unknown: Meg’s biggest practice was trusting the timing, even when it was hard.

•Creating a Safe Space: Why having a calm, loving home made all the difference.

•Perfect Timing: The special way Oisin chose to come into their lives, making everything feel just right.

and many more.

⚡ Loved this episode? Make sure to subscribe and leave us a review! We love hearing your thoughts and experiences.

⚡ Let’s stay connected:
- Follow Meg: @the.meg.o
- Follow Jacob: @thejacoboneill

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⚡ Join TGOM - https://www.theembodiedmaninstitute.com/tgom-2024

Listen to the Episode: Ep 88: Preparing for Birth as a Rite of Passage

Jacob & Meg also coach individuals & couples. Reach out to them via Instagram for more information. 

Meg O'Neill:

Yeah, I need to be in this almost like vacuum of my own experience, so that I can so deeply create this relationship with my baby and my knowing and my deep yes and my deep no.

Jacob O'Neill:

Yo yo, yo. Lovers. Welcome, welcome. Welcome to sex, love and everything in between where the O'Neills you're here with Meg and Jacob,

Meg O'Neill:

and this is the place we have really uncensored conversations about sex, intimacy and relationships. We're super excited you're here. Enjoy this episode. You

Jacob O'Neill:

yo, yo. Lovers, hey, hey, hi, beautiful

Unknown:

human.

Jacob O'Neill:

Guess what? Guess what? Guess what?

Meg O'Neill:

We had a baby.

Jacob O'Neill:

We got a baby with us,

Meg O'Neill:

a little man. We had a son. His

Jacob O'Neill:

name is osheen, and he is 30 days old on the day of recording this podcast, and he is asleep,

Meg O'Neill:

we don't know for how long, and I've got the mic like right near his face. If you're here, we are riding the lightning, little background noise. It's little, oh, she's baby snoring.

Jacob O'Neill:

It's very cute. Maybe we'll just record that for the entire podcast, but

Meg O'Neill:

we're very excited to be here. This is going to be part one of maybe three, maybe four, maybe four, like a birth, a birth series where we tell our birth story. You guys have sent in so many questions as well, so we're going to do a whole Q and A episode on our pregnancy and birth, and then probably a postpartum episode too, because I've had a lot of questions about how we're doing, how I'm doing postpartum. I

Jacob O'Neill:

think that's going to be a really cool because we've had such an incredible postpartum experience.

Meg O'Neill:

Yeah, I feel, I feel incredible. It's been

Jacob O'Neill:

big, but on all the good ways I fuck you.

Meg O'Neill:

Sometimes Jacob and I have moments of tension before we record, and we just had a moment. Yes,

Jacob O'Neill:

we did four times a charm, but yeah, I think that's gonna be a really fun podcast. But to like the postpartum one, but to actually, really, really really tell it, I feel like we need to take a step back and come back to the point of of the actual journey of pregnancy and talk about that, because it kind of sets you up to see how we've chosen the postpartum and created the postpartum that we have. This didn't just happen by accident. This didn't just happen because we go with the flow, kind of people. We actually were really intentional, and we were really clear on what we wanted to create, and we refused to believe anything else.

Meg O'Neill:

Yes, and I love that you just said that, because it is a net like everything like this episode today is going to be like the lead up to his birth and part of his birth, and then we'll do postpartum, like part three or four, but it was the pregnancy and birth has informed postpartum. And I, I can't see how it cannot. Like, postpartum isn't just this, this thing that sits on its own. It's like, I truly believe, the way a woman moves through pregnancy, and definitely the way a woman births, informs, you know, her motherhood, and informs that sacred time post birth. So that's been very intertwined for me, and part of the reason why I do feel really nourished is how we've set up our postpartum but also, yeah, the way that I chose to do pregnancy and the way that, the way that he came through

Jacob O'Neill:

100% Yeah,

Meg O'Neill:

where do we fucking begin?

Unknown:

So I don't even know how it was conceived. Have we said where he was conceive? Told you guys,

Meg O'Neill:

I think we have in one episode.

Jacob O'Neill:

So it wasn't as sacred and set as ceremonial as we Oh, that was a sauna. So it's kind of like a sweat lodge. Yeah,

Meg O'Neill:

it was, yeah, shall we? It was in a public toilet. Do you call that a public toilet that was in, like a semi public Yeah? It

Jacob O'Neill:

was an apartment block, yeah, holiday apartment block in Burley. And won't say where

Meg O'Neill:

we had a sauna together. And then my it was my family was staying with my family. We had a summer together, and then we went into the men's bathroom. You love that day. It was either then or like a day later, in the shower in the apartment, one of those two times, I prefer to tell the story of the apartment the toilets, because I just think that's funny. Because I always, like, I always, not always imagined, but maybe up until a few years ago, when I was, like, a bit Ultra spiritual, I always like, imagine that the way we would conceive would be, like, light a candle and like, Call in the spirit. Benefits for Yeah, and just like, go away for the week. Like, just to really intentionally. We call this spirit in in such a just divine, a divine love making session. Yes, that sounds like

Jacob O'Neill:

a lot of pressure and expectation and condition.

Meg O'Neill:

And we definitely, we were very intentional with choosing to call, you know, oh, she here, and the path leading up to that. But it was just funny that the actual sex was, it was really great, yeah,

Jacob O'Neill:

good sex, good pregnancy, good birth, good postpartum,

Meg O'Neill:

end of the pregnancy

Jacob O'Neill:

series. Yes, it was good, yes. Um, okay,

Meg O'Neill:

so we conceived in the semi public toilet. Um, do we want to go? Do we want to really talk about, like, we've already kind of spoke about the pregnancy journey and other in other episodes,

Jacob O'Neill:

I think, like to wrap all that up so you you were really conscious of, you know, preparing your body for for pregnancy. I not so much. I didn't really care about that sort of stuff, because it wasn't a priority for me. It was for you. Then conceived, and then we began the journey of, like, okay, we're having a baby. What do we actually want this, not next nine months, to look like, where do we want to live? Like, a lot of things changed over that course of the nine months. That's so true. I don't really thought about that, yeah, like, business wise, everything. So I think if we like, I'd like to, like, take a wide view at it and be like, Cool, alright. Like, once I remember when we like, when you showed me the pregnancy test, and not long after, we were like, we were ready to move as well. We were feeling the call to move back into the suburbs, where we had access to more things and we weren't so isolated. And that was probably one of the first intentional things I felt we did for our environment. We're like, cool. We want to be closer to the shops and closer to our friends and closer to the beach, because having a child, we're learning, because it took us three hours to prepare just to do this podcast in our own home, that if we're so far out, it would be really hard for us to receive the support that we need or get access to the things that we need. So it was like the first thing that I really felt was like a really strong intention that we set Yes.

Meg O'Neill:

And then, do you remember? I'm curious just if you remember this, do you remember when you feel I decided to have a wild pregnancy,

Unknown:

well?

Meg O'Neill:

Or was, do you remember a decision? Or do you just feel like that was something like, I have an answer to this, but I'm wondering what

Jacob O'Neill:

you're I felt we always knew we're gonna have a home birth, like, that was always my intention, and I felt we'd spoken about that and that was your intention. Yeah, I didn't know the difference. Honestly, I didn't know anything, okay? And I'm have a habit of not reading about reading up on these sort of things, or being too logical, I'm like, I'll just feel my way through it, which is sometimes good, sometimes bad, but I didn't understand the difference between what a midwife was or a doula or a birth keeper. I didn't understand any of that sort of stuff until you really introduced me.

Meg O'Neill:

I didn't either, sorry to interrupt you, but I didn't either, and that's something that I want to speak to in this Can we pause though? Because I want to come back to that. Yeah, but the wild pregnancy thing for me and those of you that don't know what a wild pregnancy is, it's when you choose to just become pregnant and then not have any medical intervention or no monitoring throughout your pregnancy. So I did not I peed on a stick, and that was literally it, like I did not have I did not go and get a blood test. I never had a scan. I was never monitored by anyone. I didn't have a midwife. I didn't No one ever checked me or checked the baby throughout my entire pregnancy and even birth, and even now, since, oh, she is a month old, like no one's ever checked him no or or no not had like a healthcare provider in that way. And I don't even know if that was ever like, a decision. I just think I always, I knew I didn't want to get scans. And then when we got pregnant, it was just like, Yeah, I don't, I don't want to see anyone. And that's when, for me, I always thought, yeah, I always knew that we'd have a home birth. But for me, I always thought home birth meant with midwives. And I thought that was kind of like, yeah, the best option, and the I just thought that was what a home birth was? You Me, I thought you needed to have a midwife. I thought it was almost like illegal. You didn't have a midwife there, which is so, like, kind of fucked up that we like, that was my mindset, or that's what we're conditioned to think that it would be illegal to just birth your child and do a very biological thing in a physiological thing in your own home. But you'd need, you'd need someone there. So, yeah, I thought we'd always have a midwife. I contacted a midwife. She didn't get back to me for like, a month. I think I contacted her maybe when I was like, 10 or 12 weeks. Um. And then in that time between contacting the midwife and her getting back to me, I found the free birth society podcast, which free birth is when you choose to birth unassisted, you don't have a medical provider. There, some people would say free birth is when you don't have, you don't pay anyone to be there, like, no birth keeper, no nothing, but really free birth, or unassisted birth, is when you don't have a medical provider there. And I started to listen to all of like, I binge these podcasts, like hardcore, like, binged. And I was suddenly like, I want to do this. I want to, I want to birth in this way. Why

Jacob O'Neill:

did it feel right? Or did it? Was it like, Oh, these are my these people are speaking my language. What was the feeling?

Meg O'Neill:

I truly feel like he it was like, my baby wants to be birthed in this way, like this. It just felt so fucking true. Yeah, it felt so true. And I would start to tell people, I'm thinking about not having a midwife and doing more of a free birth thing. And I had quite a few, even people in the alternative kind of space, say to me, like, oh, like, oh no. Like, just have a midwife there. They're super hands off. Or I know someone who had a super hands off midwife, like, all these things. And, yeah, maybe. But it was really interesting, like, already I was getting this pushback, and even when I was get pushback from people, I none of that. I could just feel this trueness in me of like, this is the way that I meant to birth. I feel like I'm really riffing that there's so much that wants to come through right now, and I

Jacob O'Neill:

have a lot to say about pregnancy, because my man,

Meg O'Neill:

we'll get to you. Actually, the first time I ever watched a birth video was probably 10 years ago, so I'd never, I'd never seen a video of a woman giving birth until I was probably, like 21 I don't even know how this video came up up for me. Actually, I think it was our housemate, M showed me it for some reason. And it was a woman free birthing. And I remember she was giving birth in a creek, and she had her husband, like, was filming, and then she had multiple other children just playing in the creek. And I remember thinking, I remember I called my mom afterwards, being like, Oh my god. How did you do that? Three times? Like, how did you get bath? Because it just like, looked quite intense. But also I remember not thinking that that was a weird thing, even though I just said before, I thought it was like there was a legality around. But I think both of those things kind of existed in my mind at once. But I remember watching that video and thinking like, ah, like, yeah, a woman can just give birth without anyone there. And it just, I don't know that there was nothing in me that was like, Oh, my God, that's wrong or dangerous, or anything like that. And I remember coming into pregnancy. I think in the back of my head I knew what free birth was, but I was always thinking, Oh, I do that, like, my third or fourth birth, yeah? Once I would Yeah. I was like, again, again. It was like, I don't think women are allowed to do that on

Jacob O'Neill:

the board. Yeah. Like, yeah. You've got to earn, like, your certificate. Totally.

Meg O'Neill:

Like, Oh, they can have, yeah, they should. They should have a midwife there, or, like, yeah, and then maybe in multiple births, once they know what they're doing. So, yeah, just a lot of context. Can I

Jacob O'Neill:

give one more piece of context? Yes, we watched a documentary in our when we lived at kite Street. This was when we thought we wanted a child, when we definitely glad that didn't happen. Thank you for not coming then thanks for waiting, bud, waiting little man. And I remember watching the inner may Gaskin documentary, yeah, I don't know what it's called, but we watched it, and that was, that was where I was like, Oh, cool. All right, this feels more aligned with our values, yes, so if you ask me, yeah, that was probably what seeded that. Before that, I thought, Oh yeah, you go to the hospital, you get put up, you hang out there, you have a couple of days where they feed you. And, yeah, I'm glad that was glad we didn't go down that route.

Meg O'Neill:

But even thinking back to the inner may Gaskin documentary that was still that's what I thought was what we were going to do, like, right? Have a midwife, because I'm thinking about some of those things. Like, you know, they're still being held, they're still being coached to, yeah, to kind of push. They're still being very much guided and, you know, told what position to get into, and all of these different things. So again, I thought that was the only way to home birth, to have someone there telling you what to do, what position to be in, when to push right. And then I discovered the free birth society podcast, and started listening to all of these stories of women just giving birth, doing the thing without anyone telling them what to do. And like I. Said before, immediately I was like, I This is him snoring. This is the way I want a fucking birth. Yeah, yeah. Do you remember when I first came to you and was like,

Jacob O'Neill:

you said the midwife didn't get back to you. And then you were like, we were looking at the idea of a birth keeper, but then you're like, maybe we don't even need one, yeah? And that's when my nervous system went, hang on. I'm not too sure about that, yeah. And it's a lot of pressure. And I'm not saying that a man can't handle it, but it's a lot of pressure to I felt it was a lot of pressure on me to be there for you, not knowing what it is that you were about to go through, and not really having my own degree of experience in birth, like I my sister gave birth, but that was, you know, down in her hometown, so far away, I hadn't been around anyone that had given birth, or had a lot of conversations that with anyone that had given birth in this way. So it felt like there was a part of it that felt reckless, and that was more so because I didn't feel confident in myself and my ability to hold you, because I didn't know what I was stepping into, and I didn't know how to prepare for it appropriately, and to go from Okay, we're gonna have a midwife who's going to be there and is registered and is kind of trained, and all of the ticks all the right boxes, I felt a sense of, I've got someone that I can turn to. I'm still going to be responsible. I'm still going to hold space and be there and not fucking hide from what is going down. But when that, when we when, when you said, Hey, I don't really want a midwife. What I took that? And you said, the wild pregnancy. I took that as like, now I'm responsible for everything, oh, which is a lot of responsibility for, for myself, having not really ever been walked this path, obviously, and I'd never really, it's not like I had any training, or had really read up on, I watched one or two documentaries.

Meg O'Neill:

So you were thinking, if we're not having a midwife, then you have to, you're the person that if something goes wrong, it's on you, or it's Yeah, yeah.

Jacob O'Neill:

And I have to make the judgment calls from that place, and then I also have to get the food. I have to do. So it's like, oh, I have all of these, these, do I have all of these responsibilities now that I'm not sure I can actually do well, and I don't

Meg O'Neill:

want to give too much away about how our birth went. But would you look back now at our birth and feel like you could do that? Like I'm so glad we had

Jacob O'Neill:

I could, but I don't, I don't, I don't think it's meant to just be you and me, after reflecting like, I'm sure we'll get down to that I like, and I have a I've been contemplating on a lot of this, and yeah, I enjoyed the fact there was someone else in in the space that we trusted and that deeply aligned with us and played a role that allowed me To be who I needed to be in that space.

Meg O'Neill:

Yeah, amazing. This snoring. Okay, so back to I just want to come back to I connected with, or I reached out to the midwife, then she didn't get back to me for a month. Found the podcast, got obsessed with it, and then the midwife finally got back to me, and I was like, No, I do not want to go down.

Jacob O'Neill:

You were like, fuck off.

Meg O'Neill:

But it was, it was, there's so many things actually that happened in our pregnancy that was so meant to be like that midwife was not meant to get back to me within that month, so that I could have the space to find another way, and to hear the stories of women, and to really realize, Oh my God, I've listened to, you know, 1020, stories of women, free birthing, I can fucking do this like I this feels true in my system, like this is the path I'm going to take. So then we I still, even though there was part of me that was like, maybe we're just meant to do it, you and me, that was still part of me that wanted someone there. And so we reached out to a doula. We connected with a doula, and then there just again, wasn't she was beautiful and amazing. And you were like, Yeah, I think let's go with her. And then I sat with it for a while, and I just never got a full Fuck yes. Like, I never got a full Yes. It takes a

Jacob O'Neill:

lot of trust, by the way, like in these sort of moments, like on paper, like with the doula I met, I was like, Oh, that feels good for me, but I'm not the one giving birth, right? So as a man, it's like, cool, yeah, I'm happy to go with her. She seemed good. Yep, tick these boxes. Yep. I'm comfortable with her. But for you, there was, even if it was 99% yes, there was still something missing, right? And that, to me, was really, I was just like, what? There's a pardon. Are you just, why are you doing this? Why are you being different? Got like she's here, she's good. Just choose. Just choose her. And that could feel my frustration, like, hang on, like I'm not the one giving birth. So if it doesn't feel 100% correct or 100% right for you, then it's not right for us. And

Meg O'Neill:

I think what my entire pregnancy, birth, even motherhood, so far as well, what I'm so, what it is confirmed for me is the work I've done before all of this, like, the importance of like, being in my body, like I'm an embodied woman. And that meant that throughout pregnancy, I was a like, I'm very connected to my yes and my No. I'm very connected to what feels true for me and what doesn't. And I think, from my experience, that is, that's the fucking compass point in pregnancy and like that's the most important thing to be anchored in, that so that we can actually be preparing again. I'll just speak from the eye like that felt so important for me, so that I could be leading myself into the birth that felt really fucking true, instead of just like, Oh yeah, okay, I'm 20 weeks pregnant. I should have, I should have a doula by now. I should have someone like, I should have, okay, I'm just gonna say yes, or they're following up with me. Oh my gosh, I haven't given them a decision. I'm just gonna say yes. It was like, No. I was so devoted to waiting like and not and just something being such a fuck yes.

Jacob O'Neill:

And that's a nervous system. That's a quality that your nervous system is developed, the ability to trust and hold that open loop, because that's, that's what it is, an open loop, like most people would have had a midwife or a doula within, you know, the first trimester, and locked it in, or that would be normally the expectation. But for us, it was a it was a matter of letting that, that open loop, be open and trusting that it will the right, the right person for you, and your birth will arrive. And it's not to say that anyone else that was there was that was an option, was wrong. It's just that it had to be 100% right. Yeah, yeah. I also just want to touch on, like, we didn't do any scans or anything, anything like that, like we you said, to be on the P don't signal it, but like that, also you have to trust there as well. I think that's another big piece of trusting that we didn't. There was no indication of the health of our baby outside of our own relationship with the baby, direct relationship. Yes,

Meg O'Neill:

and that, that surprise. What one of the most surprised. I don't even know if it was surprising, but like, I found that very easy throughout pregnancy, there was never I was maybe expecting to have more moments where I would have been like, Oh, should, should I? Should someone check me? Or I just literally never had any of those moments. And I think I said this on a previous episode when we were speaking about what the wild pregnancy and the way we were doing it. I think I was very early in the pregnancy by then, though, but for me, it really helped that, like we don't really partake in the in the medical system, like I kicked my toe earlier in the area. Went to the emergency room because it was pretty bad. But like, other than that, we don't see doctors unless something feels like an emergency or very, very true, but when we don't really partake in it at all. And so that that just didn't feel true, it just didn't feel like in my body, but in a logical way as well. Like, why would I go into a system that I don't usually partake in and I don't trust? You know, I don't trust that system. I don't trust I don't trust it at all, not just in pregnancy, but leading up to that in my life, I don't, I don't, I don't trust it. So for me, that just like, didn't make sense. So yeah, I it just felt I wasn't actually wobbled at all through my pregnancy. It felt, it felt very useful to connect with my baby and trust, trust my body and my baby.

Jacob O'Neill:

That wasn't that easy for me.

Meg O'Neill:

Okay, well, you didn't,

Jacob O'Neill:

I didn't very good job. I definitely shared a lot in my men's group. It was like, Okay, I don't know. Like, and this is like, I was like, Is the baby still alive? Is the baby gonna have Down syndrome? Is the baby going to be this? Is the baby going to be that? Will the baby have all of its fingers and toes? Will it have a rare blood disease? Will Meg be okay, or is there something going to happen to her? So for me, there was a serious level of unknown, and I just kept coming back to like, when was last time you went to the hospital? Jack? Like it. When was last time you went to a doctor like you don't and I just kept and I watched it. I remember watching videos of like animals giving birth, and like the baby would just fall out of the animal and just hit the ground. I'd be like, this is a lot more natural and simpler than we make it out to be. And the last 10 years, our life has been a stripping back of all of the things that we were programmed to believe, to come back to as much of a natural state as we can, whether it's through our food or through our way of life, or through our our work. And I was like I used to, I just kept coming back to those, like, the baby will come and the baby will be the baby regardless. Like, What would change if you got that scan, nothing. What would change if you knew the baby had this nothing? What would change if you knew the baby had this nothing? What would change if this happened nothing? So it's like so I'm only satisfying my own need for certainty. This has nothing to do with the baby. This has everything to do with me and my inability to be with this Yes, yes. And so many people freak out and have to go and do that, because they need to know if that's your story. Happy days. But for me, it was like, I was really, really conscious of like, this is has nothing to do with me. This has nothing to do with me. Wanting to care for my baby. This is not, this is not it at all. Like I don't this is I just care about whether the baby's healthy or not. No, I care about knowing so I can feel better about myself.

Meg O'Neill:

Yeah, I think there's a real I think there's a truth to when you are doing a wild pregnancy and even free birthing or having an unassisted birth, there is a level of deep responsibility you have to take, like deep responsibility, because when maybe if we would have chosen to have midwives or to be in the hospital system, it's like we're handing over our responsibility, like you're, you know, you're looking after my baby, you're responsible for keeping my baby safe. You like, there is a, there is a handing over of responsibility. So there is a truth to like, you know, in the way that we did pregnancy, that those of those are up like, I didn't know, you know, there's all of these things that could happen, but still choosing like I when you just said that, it's like, if this happened, we would have still chosen that, and I think that's where I was really in right relationship with how we did it too. Because I was like, if any of these outcomes were to happen, I would have, you know, I was in right relationship with that choice. I felt safest, and I truly felt my baby was safest with doing a wild pregnancy and with birthing in the way we did. And I truly, and I truly believe that in the way that our birth unfolded, that our baby was safest doing it here at home, having a wild pregnancy, yeah, being unassisted,

Jacob O'Neill:

totally and energetically. Like, what were we exposing? Like, not, it's not just that. This is the thing you don't just and that's, I think you spoke about, the compounding nature of like, the medical system, how they keep seeding these ideas. It's like, if we expose, if you got exposed, or our baby was exposed to the frequency of fear and control that can that is very present in hospitals. What would that have done to your nervous system, and how would that have affected you over time? So it's not just the fact that, oh, like, one, one scan won't, won't matter. It's the what does that then? What for? Like, what sort of kink does it put in your your nervous system's capacity to hold your belief?

Meg O'Neill:

Yeah? Like, if I went in for a scan and they're like, Oh, your baby's measuring big, yeah, like, just something as simple as that, like that. I I believe if I would have chosen, like, I'm impressionable, yes, I needed to opt out so I didn't have any fucking noise, so that I could deeply trust myself. I don't think you can half ass it. I don't think you will, I'll speak for myself. I don't think I could, like, get scans and have a midwife and people measuring me and telling me things and then be able to deeply trust myself. I needed to do it the way we did it, so that I didn't have any noise and no one telling me he was too big.

Jacob O'Neill:

Oh, look at this. So, ah, that's unusual. Like, like, and I because I would have punched someone in the throat. So

Meg O'Neill:

I yeah, I just know that that was my choice, because I knew that yeah, I need to be in this almost like vacuum of my own experience, so that I can so deeply create this relationship with my baby and my knowing and my deep yes and my deep No.

Jacob O'Neill:

Channeling. Do you know?

Meg O'Neill:

Should we continue? Yeah, what are we? What were okay? Maybe we continue with. Um, I

Unknown:

just feel like there's so much to say. So we were doula Yes,

Meg O'Neill:

and so then I just didn't find my Yes. So, and this particular woman was following up with me a little bit, and so I just had to be like, Hey, I'm a No, right now, if anything changes, I'll let you know. But I'm just a no run. You're

Jacob O'Neill:

a no without another,

Meg O'Neill:

yeah without another, I was just like, yeah. It just wasn't a full Fuck yes. And I think women listening, and maybe men too, but for the women listening, you know what a fuck yes is, so I knew what my fuck yes felt like. And there was moments where I was trying to make it a fuck yes with my head, and then I was just like, No. That would have

Jacob O'Neill:

been convenient if you had have sorted that, it's got it done. It's not because I think that was probably 2020

Meg O'Neill:

something weeks, maybe 25 weeks, I don't know. And so from there, I kept looking, and there was, by this stage, we decided we were gonna like birth unassisted, so no medical provider, so no midwife. So we were looking at either like a dual or a birth keeper, and we found a particular birth keeper, had a call with her. I really liked the energy, and I'd heard good things about her. Actually, I hadn't heard good Not that I'd heard bad things, but a friend of mine had done an online course with her. I vibed her energy. She did. She'd had a free birth herself, and I just, I just vibed it, yeah. So we chose her,

Jacob O'Neill:

yeah. I didn't vibe her as much, but I trusted that it wasn't about me, yeah. So for me, I was like, Oh, I don't. I didn't feel as connected to her as I did the lady before, but I was like, this isn't my birth, so that's where I had to, like, let go of mine. Like, I was like, Oh, I'm, I'm, I'm not a I'm not certain about her. But I also know that this isn't my my birth. So I trusted. I had to deeply go beyond, you know, my need to control and trust you in that decision. Yes.

Meg O'Neill:

Um, so that I think it was probably 28 weeks, yeah. Around then, yeah, I think it was about 2828 weeks when we were like a yes to her, so pretty far into the pregnancy, um, and then we had one session with her when she came to the house. So that was probably 30 something weeks, um, and we just kind of chatted, yeah. We just kind of like got to know her a little bit and chatted, um, and then a few weeks later, no, probably at 36 I think it was 36 weeks, yeah. So at 36 weeks she called me and shared that she could no longer come to our birth, which I got off the phone and I bawled, Yeah, mate, for a variety of reasons, but yeah, just being 36 weeks pregnant and being like, wow, I don't, I don't, we don't have anyone to come to my birth. And I know I'm very particular about who I want there. So it was also another, I think I came into you and I cried after getting off the phone with her, and I sat on your lap and I cried, and I said, after I'd cried, I think I said to you, maybe we're meant to do this alone. Like, there was this feeling again, of like, maybe no one's maybe this is happening because no one's fucking meant to be here. It's just meant to be me and you. And then it was really interesting to feel that and be like, Oh no. Like, especially because I was, I was very pregnant by that stage, to be like, Oh no, that that feels that doesn't feel true. At 36 weeks pregnant. I'm like, Oh, they've I want this holding I almost, I want this energetic container of someone at the birth and someone holding me towards the birth. Yeah, did you want to share anything here? Yeah, I

Jacob O'Neill:

was, I was in the like, if I really, like, about there was a part of me that was relieved, yeah, yeah. There's not, like, not to say that there's anything wrong with either the birth keepers that had, that we had chosen, but it's like, there was a part of me that was slightly relieved, yeah. And then I also just knew, I was like, well, we're already in this, like, we're not getting, like, this baby's coming regardless. So what by now, everything's happening the way it's happening, and it's going to happen the way that it happens, because it will. I was kind of, I kind of just gave it over to spirit. I was like, this is this is going to work out. I just, I'd made that there, if you asked me, there's a part of me that was relieved. And then I just like, by now, like we've and I'd, we'd listen, I'd listen to a few free birth podcasts with you by now as well. And there was a part of me is like, it's like, this is the most natural thing a woman can do. Like a woman knows how to do this. It's in her bones. It's in her DNA. This is what she's designed to do. So there was a deepening of. My trust in you, which then meant I felt more comfortable around the uncertainty of birth and whether someone would be there or not

Meg O'Neill:

within so this particular birth keeper that could no longer be with us anymore, she sent me a few recommendations, and I reached out to three. One of the women got back to me immediately, and I had voice recorded her, and I was I said to myself, I was like, internally, and I think I even said to you, I'm gonna wait like, a few hours before I message anyone, because I was still a bit emotional. And then I was like, No, fuck it. I'm gonna, like, voice record this woman with tears in my eyes and with like, a really, yeah, with my vulnerability, and I voiced recorded her, and she voiced recorded me right back, being like, Hey, can I FaceTime you? And we FaceTimed, and this ended up being Leslie, who then became a birth keeper. And immediately I was just like, this is all unfolding for this. For Yeah, this is all unfolding for him. He's choosing this. Oh, she's choosing this. Like, just, she was fucking phenomenal, and it was so beautiful, because immediately I felt such a deep connection with her, because I was vulnerable, and I hadn't quite, I hadn't had, like, a moment of, like, really, because nothing was coming up for me around birth. Yeah, so, but the other birth keeper hadn't cried, hadn't had any fears come up. Nothing big was coming up for me. No, I wasn't scared in any way. So I didn't have to process anything with her. It was literally just, like, just a bit of a Hangout when she came over. But with this, with Leslie immediately, because I was, like, a bit shaky, and being like, Hey, I'm, you know, this is the reason why she couldn't come and it's wobbling me a bit and, you know, I'm really pregnant and, and she was just fucking phenomenal. So she came over the next day. Yeah, she

Jacob O'Neill:

was, yeah, she was like, she was kind of like, the fairy godmother. That was the energy that I needed. That was what I needed. She's just Bippity boppity boo, and she's here. And I was just like, Leslie's here, and then everything was okay in the world again.

Meg O'Neill:

And Leslie is just, we spoke about Leslie before. She's just fucking phenomenal. So

Jacob O'Neill:

she, from an energetic perspective, like she that is what she brings. She brings a very beautiful, soft yet strong sense of love,

Meg O'Neill:

and she holds such a beautiful maternal energy, which I'll speak into than her being in my birth, like in the next episode. But it was so healing, even leading up so we said yes to Leslie the next day. We're like, this feels fucking amazing. And then Leslie came probably three times leading up, so maybe once a week before we gave birth, or once a fortnight before we gave birth. And Leslie would come, and she would rub my feet, and she would just sit, and she would ask us our own birth stories, so how we came into the world. And she would ask us if anything was coming up. And again, she wasn't a birth keeper. Doesn't check. She never checked me. She never palpated or like tried to check where he was or anything like that. It was, she was there to energetically hold us, yeah, and to be with any fears coming up or anything that was arising, and just to love up on us.

Jacob O'Neill:

Yeah, she just created a sense of not this is normal. This is the most normal thing you can do, and this is how we can support this is how you know, we can support you being the one that's having the baby. My love is that we can support Meg to have the most beautiful birth ever. It's like we learn a few little moves and massage techniques, and it was all just really like, it was all just very like, it was easeful. It was this, yeah, it was like, it just felt like there was this really beautiful softness, but that softness was only there because of, like, I don't know there was, there was a beautiful strength in her that I that maternal strength, the mother, yeah, the mother archetype.

Meg O'Neill:

And there's like, a, and I think when I also just for anyone listening, that might be like, well, what's the purpose of having someone like Leslie there? And when I think about what I wanted leading up, and then what actually went down in the birth as well, it's really like, energetically holding the space, it's being. And also some of the, some of the more, like logistical things, so when he was born, and some of the things like, you know, helping move me, and, yeah, the placenta and things like that. But really, we wanted someone to, just like, energetically, or almost energetically, hold you in a way as well, because it's like, you

Jacob O'Neill:

know, oh, can I explain it? Yeah, energetically, hold the space so you and I could be in it. Yes, together. That was the thing that I looked at. I was like, if I'm holding the space for both of us, then there's going to be a part of me that's slightly detached from the the experience. Yes, just by this being my first rodeo,

Meg O'Neill:

you could rest into the space that. She was holding, instead of feeling like you were holding it all correct?

Jacob O'Neill:

Yeah, cool. I don't have to do, I don't have to do the all of the holding, and my awareness can, like, really hone in where, you know, Leslie could hold the wider field, yes?

Meg O'Neill:

So yeah, as soon as she kind of came into our life in that journey, it was just immediately, like, I just and I remember when I got off face time with her before she came the like, when it all went down. So within 20 minutes of talking to our old birth keeper, I Leslie had FaceTimed us, and I think I came in and was like, I'm so happy. This is meant to be. Like, this is just so fucking meant to be. She's incredible. So it truly felt so unbelievably divine. Just like, how, how all of that, and like, how we trusted, and especially, I guess me, like, yeah, not not waiting, yeah. Like, Wait, being able to be in majority of our pregnancy without any support, without knowing who was going to be there, yeah. Um, anything else you want to speak on that? Or do we want to now speak on like,

Jacob O'Neill:

No, I think that's like, within 24 hours, like everything had changed, yeah, but it felt, but it felt even better. Yeah, yet again. So it was like this, all right, which we didn't choose the first birth game, we trusted, and then we chose the birth keep and we trusted. And then through the, you know, through her not being able to make the birth, we had to then trust again. And then we were gifted the wonderful Leslie, and that then, like, there was like a bone, like bone knowing, like in our bones, like, ah, it was like a yet, it was a fuck yes from you, and it was a fuck yes for me, yes. I think that was probably the piece around, you know, birth and pregnancy is like, yes, it is a woman's role, and she has the final say 100% but I think if you're choosing to do this together in the way that we did it, and fully be both engaged in the process and not outsource anything, any any outsource anything via a fear based belief. Like for me, it was really beautiful to feel that level of a fuck yes with Leslie, and be able to fully, like rest into that as well, totally as someone who wasn't giving birth, but was there for it.

Meg O'Neill:

Um, one thing I want to talk about is, I want to kind of talk about the days leading up to giving birth, because he came at 41 weeks and five days. So, you know, almost almost 42 weeks. And even though I don't believe in the due date, I just think baby comes. When baby comes, do not

Jacob O'Neill:

ask a woman due date. How dare you? Was I saying that? No, but I could feel it. Someone asked,

Meg O'Neill:

well, people would say, when do you do? And I'd say, any day now. Like I would never give them, yeah, the 23rd of September, even though in my head I knew, like I'd tracked my ovulation in my last period and stuff, so I had a date. But I would never say to people, oh, due date is the 23rd of September. I But even though I didn't really believe in the due date, fuck as soon as I got to 40 weeks, just like every day feels like it's 10 days long, like it's a long fucking time after that point, I'm just feeling and especially because I had many moments of feeling, like, even, I think it was, I was, I was 38 weeks pregnant, I was at a friend's house, was at Jesse's house, and I was having like, period, like cramps, and I was having to, like, just get up and walk around at a house, and there was just this intimate group of women there, and I was like, Guys, I have to go. This might be labor. I don't remember. I think I might be going to labor. And for hours it went on, and then I came home and had a bath and it left. But for weeks, it was kind of like I'd wake up and be like, Oh, it could be today. It could be today. So it was just a long time though the void,

Jacob O'Neill:

it's like, yeah, and I should I start doing something? Or can I go to the shops? Can I go could we go to Brisbane? Like, how fast should we leave the house? Like, we don't want to get caught somewhere and have to, like, rush home? Or so, it was a real in between phase for us, I believe, and we'd done such a great job of preparing the space and preparing our home from, you know, and Leslie was so great for that as well. From, like, leading into that sort of, that 40 week mark, we had gathered all of the items that we needed for the home birth, and we'd gathered, yeah, we'd set up the home and our businesses to be pretty, pretty, pretty well complete or structured, so that when the baby so in that 40 week mark, we were ready, ready for him to be here. Yes,

Meg O'Neill:

something. I'll I want to come back and speak into those days. But also a big thing that came up for me, and this is actually one of the only i. Yeah, like, I didn't have, I don't even want to say a lot. I did not genuinely have any fear around birth. There wasn't any big things that arose in me that I had to clear or really meet leading up to the birth. And again, I think a huge piece to that was me consuming lots of podcasts and lots of free birth stories. So hearing all of these stories of women birthing in power and birthing unassisted at home, I just like, I just like, brainwashed myself with all of that. Like, that's the only I wasn't I wasn't listening to anything else.

Jacob O'Neill:

Yeah, like, oh, better listen to this. Just to balance out, no, I was just brainwashing

Meg O'Neill:

myself with free birth, yeah, unassisted stories, yeah, yeah. And there wasn't just really anything coming up for me. The only thing coming up for me was Jacob runs a retreat every year called the gathering of men. And so I was 40 weeks on the 23rd of September, his retreat was starting on the fourth of October. And even from when we first conceived, I said to him, Hey, I feel like I'm going to give birth when t bomb is on, because you set the date, like before we even conceived,

Jacob O'Neill:

and I was the gathering of men, tgi, so the gathering of men, tigum,

Meg O'Neill:

I'm going to call it t go from now on. So from when we conceived, I kind of knew, and because I know also a lot of women go over if they're not really in the system, many women go to 41 and a half to 42 weeks and beyond. So I was like, but I just always had this feeling that I'm gonna give birth when tea gum is on, yes. Um, so leading up towards, you know, getting later and later in the pregnancy, there was always this feeling for me of like, what's this gonna look like? And you were, you were preparing yourself so that you did not have to be at the retreat at all, yes, um, but still, there was this feeling in me of, like, like, what it was just so unknown. Because if you would have come two weeks earlier, then you could have gone. And then we there was just such an unknown of, will you be able to go? Won't you not

Jacob O'Neill:

just that? Like, the will, yeah, sorry, the years before the two because I've run the third time the last two years that I've run it, it is like, taken up all of my time and all of my energy, my resource so,

Meg O'Neill:

and like, two hours before you're set to leave, you're still grabbing things and organizing, and you've been just like, such. It's been a huge stretch in the days leading up. So that's what, yeah, so you

Jacob O'Neill:

had that data to go off. And even though I was reiterating every single day, Hey, I've I have structured this so I don't have to be there, and then everything's organized. You'd seen what how I'd been the last two years, so you were obviously only going off what you'd seen me in. So this was a whole new level of trust.

Meg O'Neill:

So I was thinking guys that like, yeah, like, what if I just didn't want anyone anything to penetrate our birth space, or also be able to penetrate the early stages of postpartum. I just didn't want anything to Yeah. I didn't want you to have to be I wanted you to just be fully present, which I know you are a human that is able to be fully present, and I knew you were always going to choose that, but that fear just kept coming up for me. So I would, I would consistently bring this throughout the pregnancy, of like, I'm just getting this fear and, oh, this is coming up. And did the men know you're not going to be there? Or potentially you're like, you feel, yeah, like there would, this would just be a thing for me coming up to the birth. And then I think, just like as because I had sensations at 3038, weeks around there was part of me that thought I was going to give birth to him earlier. And so we were like, Oh, if he comes kind of this week, then you'll be able to go. It was just such a weird energy of like, will you go to T Gon, won't you when's the baby coming? And there was a, I think, at 3839 weeks, that was part of me that was kind of like, Come on, baby, come so Daddy can go to T Gon, because I really wanted you to be able to go. And there was this grief around like, Oh, you've worked so hard on this creation. I really wanted you to be able to go, not for the entire if we if you would have come early, you wouldn't have gone for the entire thing. But I was like, I want you to go out for the poets breakfast and like these kind of things. And you the entire time were like, so I never felt any part of you wishing he would come early, or wishing trying to manipulate things so that you could have both like I never felt any part of you desiring that which was so healing and supportive for me. Yes.

Jacob O'Neill:

Yeah, that. Was hard. That was hard to be constantly questioned, but it was like, Ah, you're only asking because it's a feeling. And so I just had to keep reaffirming. And I knew it was always my intention to build myself out of the center of that experience, of that event, like I can't be like, what happens if I get hit by a truck? What happens if I get sick and I can't go like there's all these other factors, you know, there was a lot of what ifs that? If everything rides, you know, if everything is weighed down on my shoulders, there's other factors, you know, over the coming years that I'll need to build myself out of this eventually. So this was a real activation for me to restructure my business, restructure how I do things, and actually learn to work more efficiently. And I literally was the most relaxed I've ever been before during a launch and during a preparation for, like, a huge event. It's not a small five person thing, it's 200 men on the land. So the way that I did that, and the way that I was able to call in favors and build and, you know, lean on the relationships that I built. And, yeah, I was able to really just create the right structure where I gave it my all up until the point where I needed to, then with up until the point where I didn't, then I didn't have to go, which was cool, and it was perfect, yeah. And once again, it was like, I think it was because I'd set that fear just as fiercely as you'd set the intention of this is what feels right my body. I'd said I am structuring this because I'm not going No, and I don't think I ever said anything different. And you kept saying, Well, maybe you could, I said, but I'm not, but what you were being very accommodating. I was like, No, that's not how it's going to be, which was very

Meg O'Neill:

sexy and very like that continued to make me feel safe. And if, if, like, when I said before, I never sensed any part of you that was like, like, energetically, I wish he comes early, or I hope that I can go like, No, you were so solid in I don't need to fucking be there, and I don't not that I don't want to be there. But there wasn't like a I hope it works out that I can go, never, ever, ever, ever, ever did I hear you say that. So for me that just felt like, because this was the only thing that kept arising for me, and it was this fear of like there being, like some kind of rupture in the space, in the containment of the birth and the container of postpartum that that when you reiterated that when I would bring my fear to you, and you just reiterated that I'm not going to be there, I know even when I was like, I hope you get to go to the I hope he comes at this time so you can, you just be like, No, I don't need to be there. Let's not he'll come when he comes like it just you wouldn't even entertain my hopes that you'd get to go, yeah, which was just again, I just want to say that, because it created such a deep level of safety. And it was just you reiterating, like, I'm here. Nothing else is as important, yeah, as this moment and you and the space that we're creating for this birth. And

Jacob O'Neill:

if I had have been like, Oh, she's giving me permission, I'm gonna latch on to that. Yeah, love her. I will go, but, like, if anything, but if the baby comes in, then we'll but I'm definitely going,

Meg O'Neill:

yeah, like you weren't trying to be like, Oh, okay, so let's, I'm gonna do everything I can to go and make everything like you were just like, No. And even in the final day, like, you know, just to spoiler, but I went into labor the moment of the opening ceremony of TI Gong, and even the day before he came, I was like, oh, like, maybe you could go tomorrow. Like, if I'm not going into labor in the morning, or I'm not feeling things, like, I really want you to be able to go. And you're like, we'll see in the morning. It doesn't matter. But yeah, it wasn't like, you'd be like, Oh yeah, cool. Okay, that'd be great, which was, again, just Yeah, it was really fucking important for me to feel you here and you wanting to deeply be here despite, like, of course, you fucking wanted to be here, but despite this huge thing that was happening in your world as well, yeah,

Jacob O'Neill:

100% and I'd built, yeah, and I built a structure that, if I had gone in anyway, it would have been clunky. It would have like, we'd put people, like there was a leadership team, and they all had roles, and everything was working. And it was as if it almost felt like, if I you almost would feel like I was running onto the field when I wasn't meant to be there, and there's already enough players on the field. So it felt like I'd structured that regardless. And for me, that was a letting go. It was like, I have to be okay with not going to something that I've spent the last 12 months devoted to, like, heavily, and that's okay, which is cool, because like, like you said, like, I've finished like. And the way that it happened, you know, it gave me, I was able to, we were sitting at home and be like, well, baby's not here. Like in the lead, I was like, I'm just gonna work. Because there's nothing like this is the lifestyle we've created, yes, that we can work the way that we do. And it's not as if I was having to go to and from an office or to and from a job. It's like, oh, I'm at home, and I get to be here and we have breakfast. I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna work. I'm gonna just sit here and look at each other and wait and like, be like, Okay. And like, feel that kind of urgency is like, I'm gonna go and work and use my time intentionally. And that then led to, yeah, me being able to, pretty much, like, be the really, like, steward the rich, like steward everything, and direct everything towards a retreat. So everything landed so beautifully, and I really played a new I really, like, redefined my leadership role that I hadn't ever stepped into before. I was

Meg O'Neill:

gonna, what was I gonna say? Yes, the I want to say a few things. Well, the timing of him was just like, fucking impeccable. Yes. Like, there was like, of course, but so many things in our pregnancy and birth, like we described with the birth keeper and everything, like, everything was just like, and it's funny, I'm about to use this word, but I was gonna say everything was just perfect, because I remember, in one of the podcasts I did leading up to birth, I was like, I don't want the perfect birth. Yeah, I don't want the perfect birth. And by that I meant, like,

Jacob O'Neill:

reverse psychology

Meg O'Neill:

spirit. We got, like, the curated like, oh, it's gonna be orgasmic, and it's gonna be perfect, and I'm gonna just be like, I didn't want that. I wasn't playing. I wasn't trying to manifest that. Yeah. And I think I really, I really let go of any I never tried to. I didn't have like a birth plan in terms of like, But simultaneously, I think this is like, a hard thing to describe. I didn't have a birth plan as in, like, it's going to be orgasmic, and this is how, exactly how it's gonna look, and all these things. But I so was so anchored in the knowing that I was gonna stay home. And there was never, I never entertained anything else. I was like, my body knows how to do this. I'm gonna give birth in our living room like nothing else was in my field.

Jacob O'Neill:

I would say that you weren't grab grabbing hold of any kind of like it needed to feel this or look this way. Yes, other than I'm having this baby here at home, in a place where I feel safe, where I can be in the full range or the full spectrum of expression,

Meg O'Neill:

and my body can do this, I don't maybe it'll take five hours. Maybe it'll take 32 hours. I was open to whatever it was gonna take, but yeah, knowing that I was gonna say the perfect timing of the birth, because it was fucking impeccable that you were working right up to pretty much the moment I went into labor. Not like, working, working, working, but the you know, T gom had, like, I went into labor the moment of the T gom opening ceremony beginning so you were able to prep. You were able to, like, be on call for people who needed you. Yeah, and it was literally just like this, this little guy knew, Okay, the Opening Ceremony has begun. Daddy isn't needed anymore. Those like, they can go do their thing and have their ceremony. Now we're going to be in our ceremony. And just how impeccable that was, like, literally, it was like, as one ceremony opens and you weren't needed anymore, this ceremony began, correct? And yeah, it was just really fucking beautiful. And

Jacob O'Neill:

it was like, yeah, if he had have come any sooner, would I, would I've still had things to do? Yes, later, would I have been, like, just sitting here being like, I wish I was out there. I wish I was out there. But we don't know, because it didn't happen that way. But he came right on the bus. He came right at the the perfect time where I was, like, the transition of, okay, I've done all that I can, and now let go, and I got this

Meg O'Neill:

that was, that was my, not my fear, but like, my thing of, like, oh, imagine if he came on the Tuesday, and we were just sitting here all weekend, being like, Should you go to teagum? Or is this a sense that, is he coming? Like, like, that would have been painful. That would have been really challenging to have gone through the whole weekend and him not come and you, you know, miss, and I'm sure we would have moved through it and all the things. But it just felt like so fucking impeccable, like the timing of it just wildly impeccable.

Jacob O'Neill:

Yeah, divine timing. Um, you had a divine, perfect,

Meg O'Neill:

not orgasmic birth. Um, the only other thing that I think might be helpful, or just like, if we have any thoughts on, um, just any more of that lead up, how he felt in the lead up those days, and then I think we can. Come to completion on this. I

Jacob O'Neill:

think they were just good at, like, being okay with, like, like, once again, like, it wasn't a judos, like, this baby will come, when this baby comes. And we had, like, my friend Dylan came around and put up the, like, the the bolt so we could hook up the birth sling. And then we had Leslie coming around and, like, we just, we just sit and we talk. And then we had, you know, we'd set up the altar, and we set up all of the lights, and we set up the red lights, and we had everything. And we were just really preparing our home. We were creating the space in a way that felt right for us. And we're like, okay, let's, you know, we set up a few, you know, plans for postpartum, and we made sure that we had some stuff there. But nothing was ever like we need to be like this. Yes, it was that we just kept tending to the edges of the space and tending to the the beauty of what was coming. And it was, it was always around like, what is going to honor? What feeling are we honoring? What what is the what are we what intention are we returning to? It's like this baby knows when it wants to come. Meg's body knows how to do this. Yeah, we just came. We just were anchored to those, like, those very core beliefs of like, this is this is nature doing what nature does. And that for me, like, in the lead, I was like, Cool, all right, yeah, I'm gonna be like, say I'm gonna do some work. Like, I'm literally 10 meters away in my office. It's not as if I'm leaving to go to South Australia or I'm rushing off to Brisbane to do something. It's like, cool. I'm in like, we designed my work was designed around the fact that I wanted to be here and available. And that's the not everyone has that luxury, or not everyone has chosen that path, but for us, that's what worked and what allowed us to really have a really, really beautiful nine months, and for you to have a beautiful pregnancy, because we were living our life by design. Yeah,

Meg O'Neill:

I think for me those days, it was a practice like, every day. Like, when I said earlier around, like, once I hit 40 weeks, just that, and because I'd had moments of like, always, I think the baby might be coming, like, oh, because it was 10 days, yeah. So I think it was a practice every day. And I wouldn't say it was ever, like, really, really, deeply challenging, but it was definitely a practice each day, of waking up into that day and being like, because I wouldn't plan things. No, I just wake up into the day and be like, I could have a baby today. What am I going to do? Like, and it was kind of like, should I, oh, go to the beach and I'll have a swim and I'll watch some Netflix. I got pretty good at that, you know, like it was, it was just, it was a strange feeling that there was like a, there's a limboness to it, and the waiting in terms of, like, Oh my God, my whole life is going to change in any moment. But it also could be still a month away. Because, you know, I've known, I know people, and Leslie has spoken as known people that women that have gone to 44 weeks, 45 weeks, like, you know, we were never going to have any intervention no matter how long the baby was, you know, the baby was going to come when the baby comes. So that was just, I just want to speak into like that. There was challenge in that, and it was a daily practice of just surrender and just not trying to work out when the baby was coming, and not trying, when I would have sensations, not trying, to be like, This is it? This might be it. I was just like, being with the sensations, even when we get into part two and we speak about the actual birth, like that whole morning, I probably didn't say like, Oh, I think it's going to be today. But I was feeling a lot of different things and new things. But I didn't ever want to attach to like, okay, the baby is coming, until the moment of like, okay, no, this is really on. I think this is really happening. So yeah, that was, that was such a deep practice over those 10 days of just like, probably more, probably from like, 38 and a half weeks, 39 weeks, so probably two and a half weeks where it was like, yeah, just surrendering, letting go, releasing my grip of timelines, releasing my grip on, like, do I think it's going to be tomorrow? Is it going to be today? Like, just like, letting that go? Yeah, 100%

Jacob O'Neill:

Yeah. But yeah, that's, that's it in a nutshell, I guess, the pregnancy and lead up to birth for part one, is there anything else that you I think it's just like, cool to like, for me, like, I'm really proud of the way that we've chosen to do this, and how easy it has been. And I will use the word big. It was a big time in our lives, like that. That window of like, tea gun was happening, Sheen was arriving, all that. It was big. It was a lot, like so big. Life was full, but it wasn't there. Was not at any point where I felt like you or I were like, angry, or this is, this is this is hard, or this is, this shouldn't be going this way. Or I wanted to be there. Wasn't. I wish it could have been different. Yeah. There wasn't any I want this. This isn't going the way that we wanted. There wasn't any of that frustration from a point of like, this isn't I'm not getting what I want. And I think that comes down to the way that we spent every single day of the pregnancy of being like, this is what we're choosing, and this is how we're doing it. This is what we're choosing, and this is how we're doing this is our intention. And then let it go, yeah, and that's a, you know, it's I, I've just, I've described it as like it felt like, and it felt like the night before a grand final for nine months for me, because it it woke all of my insecurities. It's awoken all of my fears. It awoke all of that. And that was a daily practice of being with that. And by the time the birth came around, I was prepared for anything, because I didn't outsource my fear to someone outside of our family to give me a false sense of certainty. Oh,

Meg O'Neill:

I think, are you open to me, just like asking you questions? A lot for you, yeah, I want to, because we didn't really speak to like the fears coming up for you. But if you want to, like, share a little more on that, and then how you move through them. Because I love what you just said around like, I think most men would probably have fears coming up around their partner giving birth. And, like we said earlier, and you know, I My thing is, like, give birth where you feel safest. And for us, it wasn't the medical system, but there, to a certain degree, the medical system does give, like, give us a sense of security, but no one can ever, yeah, no, take away any any uncertainty or any and especially with birth, birth is meant to be mysterious and uncertainty uncertain. So, yeah, just the way we chose to do pregnancy and birth meant that you had to take full accountability for that fear and, like, be with it. So, yeah, yeah, tell us more about that we

Jacob O'Neill:

had. Like, yeah, it's, it's a different type of fear, because it's not me going through it. Yeah, I am going through it. Bucha, it's a My life has changed, but I'm not, I'm not the one in the driver's seat you are. So the fears were really just a lack of control, anything to do with a lack of control. And then what's he doing? Is he getting at his oh, gosh,

Unknown:

oh, how are you sleep through there?

Jacob O'Neill:

Yeah, he's waking up. Oh, this is perfect coming. The fear is just a lack of control over the over what was going on or that I couldn't take your place. Yeah. And I think that's what a lot of men struggle with, and that's why they go looking to other people, like doctors and to systems and things like that. It's like, well, I need someone to give me a sense of, a sense of relief, and, oh, hey bud, welcome to

Unknown:

the podium. Guys, hello, hello.

Jacob O'Neill:

And I really, truly believe that it's, it's a, it's a daily practice, and it was like making sure I was speaking to the right people and having conversations with the right people and not polluting my mind with bullshit Yes, and not going looking for answers in the wrong places. Yeah. And that was really cool. And I spoke to a lot of a lot of different men that had been through different birth experiences, and being a father, and the birth probably wasn't the thing that was worrying me. It was like the am I going to be good enough at everything else? And that's will be an ongoing practice where I don't think I'm going get I'm not get I'm not gonna get out of that all of a sudden and be like, I'm good enough. Now, I think it'll be a an ongoing relationship that I have with my own self worth. But yeah, I'm just, yeah. I'm just really, once I started listening to the podcast and learning about this, the medicalized system, and how it literally denies a woman her rite of passage. A lot of the time, her, you know, the right of passage, of giving birth and taking it away from her. I think that that's where I got really I felt my felt mice like, spine straight like no, this is if we cannot provide women the safety to go where they need to go, because we're scared of what will happen, or we're attached to something. We're attached to it needing to be, you know, certain then us men have work to do outside of the birth space, to prepare ourselves to be what women need us to be, what women require us to be. And that's where I got really clear. I was like, ah, everything I've done, if this isn't just me reading a book about birth, this is me going and doing all of the different work that I've done over the last eight years to be able to be the man that doesn't waver, that doesn't wobble, that doesn't worry when you make a sound, or you turn a certain way, or you feel a certain thing, and just to, like, sort of cycle back. You know, we went and we it was beautiful. We had some ceremony weekends where we went and we were like, in a ceremony with some of our teachers that are Sharma. And like that felt like beautiful preparation for me that felt like that's who I want to be speaking. Can only speak to the mountains and to the rivers and the streams and people, Michael, they don't, they don't have a degree, or they're not, they're not doctors. Like, I don't give a fuck. Like, that's not how I roll. And the same sort of thing. Like, seven days before for the 40 weeks, we went and sat sweat lodge with our beautiful a beautiful friend and teacher, Harvey, who's a medicine woman from Chile, and we all went and sat in the sweat lodge and sang songs and prayed and called, called the spirit of this baby in and that, to me, was that That's right, that's where I go to get my you know, my confirmation, that's where I go to get my certainty, is from the world, like from Soul, from spirit, not from and not from a system that I don't truly believe in, outside of emergency situations.

Meg O'Neill:

And I think, yeah, I think for both of us, what I want to say here that I think it was, it's our I feel like, why there has been a sense of ease through all of this is because of the relationship we've built with uncertainty and the mystery of life before this point in time. Because, you know, we as humans, our culture, tries to bring certainty to everything, and pregnancy birth is like, it's a mysterious fucking thing. It's not meant to have an exact timeline like pregnancy, but then birth as well. It's not meant to happen in a specific time. Every woman's birth is different. Every single birth that every woman has is different, and like our culture is trying to create such certainty around it, where I truly feel the deepest practice is to surrender to the mystery. And even in that lead up of, you know, going those 10 days after due date, like every day, was just like, Okay, can I just surrender to the mystery. I don't know when this baby's coming, even though I want it, and I'm ready to be a parent, and I'm ready to give birth. And can I'm feeling heavy, and I'm in a bit of Pat, like, can we just fucking have this thing already? Like, it was just, like, I just have to surrender to the mystery. And I really just think that is and again, that was also one of my greatest practices in the birth is I don't know how long I've got to do this for? It could be another hour. It could be another 12 hour. It could be another 24 hours, who the fuck knows? And just not trying to know, not trying to know. And I think that really, really served us 100% Okay, should we wrap this thing up? Let's

Jacob O'Neill:

wrap it up.

Meg O'Neill:

We'll be back for another two

Jacob O'Neill:

or three podcast. So yeah, we're really excited. And I think that that is like, set the tone for the like part two, with the experience of pregnancy and, sorry, the experience of birth, yeah, and yeah, we're really excited to, like, guide you, guide you through what we experience, both from our perspectives, and really share what was probably one of the most amazing, well, Yeah, the most amazing thing that I believe we've shared in our lifetime so far, right on,

Meg O'Neill:

I love you. Love you. Thanks for listening real soon for

Jacob O'Neill:

part two, big love Bye, Yo yo yo. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of sex, love and everything in between. Now, if you'd like to stay connected with Meg and I, you can head on over to Instagram and follow me at the Jacob O'Neal. And where can people find you lover,

Meg O'Neill:

at B dot. Meg, dot. O

Jacob O'Neill:

amazing. And, yeah, guys, check out the show notes for all other information in regards to what we've got coming up. And yeah, we're super, super grateful that you guys have taken the time to listen in to this podcast. If you do have any topics or any questions, like I said, hit us up on Instagram, and we'll see what we can do. Apart from that, have a beautiful, beautiful rest of your day. Thanks for being here. Big, big. Love you.

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Jacob O'Neill

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Meg O'Neill

Host