Ep 92: Masculine leadership w/Jose Alejandro - Finding harmony in your vision and your relationship

This isn’t about suppressing what you’re feeling; it’s about expanding your capacity to be with whatever life throws your way.

In this episode of Sex, Love & Everything in Between, Jacob O’Neill sits down with life & embodied leadership coach, impact-driven brand strategist, somatic practitioner, men's work facilitator and apprentice rite of passage guide, Jose Alejandro, for a candid conversation on navigating the complexities of modern manhood. They dive deep into what it means to show up fully in relationships and life, even when it feels overwhelming.

Jose opens up about the struggles men face when balancing the demands of relationships and personal growth, and how rites of passage can help cultivate resilience, emotional regulation, and a sense of purpose.

They also riff on:

•Jacob’s raw confession about the anxieties of becoming a father

•Why integrating emotions isn’t just about intellectual understanding, but somatic practice

•Jose’s transformative journey from corporate burnout to embodied leadership

•The dangers of bypassing embodied practices for intellectual solutions

•The power of boundaries as acts of love

•Finding clarity and power through rites of passage

•The importance of checking in with yourself and owning your emotional state

•Why “holding it all together” doesn’t mean doing it all

And so much more…

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🔥 Let’s stay connected:

•Follow Meg: @the.meg.o

•Follow Jacob: @thejacoboneill

🔥 Connect with Jose:

•Visit his website: www.josealejandro.co

•Instagram: @rjose_alejandro

🔥 Want more?

•Heed the call and join The Gathering of Men: https://tgom.pages.ontraport.net/The-gathering-of-men-23

•Explore our relationship resources: www.meg-oneill.com/relationship-freebie

Jacob & Meg also coach individuals and couples—slide into their DMs for more info!

Transcript

Unknown: 1:07

Just because you can doesn't mean you have to or you should, but increasing your capacity allows you to, allows me to show up when the time demands it.

Jacob O'Neill: 1:25

Yo, yo, yo. Lovers. Welcome, welcome. Welcome to sex, love and everything in between. We're the O'Neills. You're here with Megan Jacob,

Meg O'Neill: 1:33

and this is the place we have really uncensored conversations about sex, intimacy and relationships. We're super excited. You're here. Enjoy this episode.

Jacob O'Neill: 1:48

Yo Yo lovers, welcome back to sex, love and everything in between. Meg is still in bed. She's sleeping away 38 weeks pregnant, and I've been reaching out to all my bros overseas and been jumping online to interview them, to bring them onto the podcast, and pretty much just fill up our our calendar, because we're going to be in the baby bubble pretty soon. And today, I've got my bro, Jose, who's a, who's a, he's an OG, for me, because he was someone that I met early on in my journey with men's work with personal development and with, like, really just learning how to build an online presence. And for me, what I you know Jose? He's a men's life and leadership coach. He's a somatic practitioner, he's a men's work facilitator, he's a right of passage guide, he's a business consultant. He's got this beautiful range of of gifts that he offers the world through his services. But, uh, one of the things that I've loved witnessing and almost like journeying alongside this bro, is that in the personal development world, it's very easy to get caught up by the the shiny lights of like the 10k months and the 20k months in scale to 100k and make seven eight figures, and all of these things. And a lot of people get caught up in that, and they get chewed up and spat out. And what I've witnessed in this man is that he's stayed in it for the right reasons, and I've seen a devotion to his relationship, to the depth of his work. And it's, at times, kept me inspired to stay in the seat as well. You know, there's been so many times where I've been like, I'm throwing at the towel in and then when I see guys like you and a lot of the men over in America doing this work and staying the course, it reminds me that, you know, this is, this is a this is normal. There are other men doing this, and it's important that we stay in it and serve in this way. Man, so I'm just so grateful that you're, you've been willing to jump on and have a chat with me, bro, and selfishly, I just wanted to catch up and and have it have a chat with you as well. Man, it's been so long,

Unknown: 3:46

yeah. What a, what a, what a beautiful way to do it, man, really honored to be here. I really appreciate that warm welcome and and I feel seen. So I really, I really love the way that you just shared your perspective on how you see me, because that's, that's how I try to show up in the world. And you know, there's, there's definitely the parts that, the parts of me that creep up and are like, that's not fucking true, you know. And just honoring those parts right now, just allowing myself to receive what you shared, and excited to be here, excited to dive in, maybe share a little bit of my story, to support someone else, to show up in that way.

Jacob O'Neill: 4:30

That's where I'd love to start. Man, a little bit about your story. And you know, I'm just going to hand, hand it over to you. Man, like, how we do have a lot of women and a lot of men listen to this. It's pretty, pretty even. But like, for, for anyone out there that may be walking an entrepreneurial path and wanting to deepen in relationship and holding, kind of these two massive, massive things that you know require a level of responsibility, bro, like, how's your journey been from wherever you want to start up until now?

Unknown: 4:59

Yeah, man, well, still a challenge, right? I always, I always find myself pressed up against a threshold with it. And I'd be lying if I didn't start off by saying there's a part of me that sometimes wants to get in a car, drive away, never come back. You know, it's like just let go of all responsibilities, with my relationship, with my business, with all of it, and just honoring that part, acknowledging that part allows me to create space to do jack, all you know, and fill up my tank so that I can have the capacity to be there for both my relationship and in my business. And, you know, the journey really started with a massive breakdown. I mean, you know, a little bit of background my parents. You know, throughout my life, it was a very chaotic household, lot of anxiety and and a lot of anxiety from my mom's side, a lot of anger and frustration from my father's that it's kind of explosive and then repressed. And that was, like the tension that was. Air, and they split and got back together, maybe a total of like five times. And the last time that they did was four months after I moved out of my house in with my partner, who's now my fiance. And when that happened, it was maybe four years after getting my bachelor's in psychology. So that's four years of understanding all this shit about, you know, childhood developmental psychology and trauma and all this, like childhood, you know, caretaker wounds and all this stuff, but not necessarily feeling it in my body or having actually explored it so I understood it. I could use the terminology all of it. And then this happened, and it was just like, all this childhood, all these childhood wounds started to pop up. It got kind of messy and ugly, you know, between my parents and me kind of being in the middle of that. This is about eight years ago. And then, like, probably lasted for about a year and a half, two years, trying to figure that out. And that revealed itself in my relationship. I mean, it's challenging enough, moving in with your partner and kind of seeing the things that that pop up there, but doing so and having navigated that and all of that stuff coming up. So it was like I was in corporate at the time. I had this relationship that I was excited to take to the next level, because we were now, like, living together and exploring what that looked like. It just all blew up in my face, really. You know, a lot of I was dysregulated. I did not know what to do with my emotions, except like React and need to resolve them in the moment. Everything had to be a fucking conversation and a lengthy one, because I needed to, you know, I was outsourcing my my my my love and my, my ability to self regulate and and, yeah, just all came to the surface that was like the first really the source was just like feeling overwhelmed by it all and imprisoned by all the things that I had built around me that were not aligned with who I actually wanted to be in the world, my truth. I didn't really have a vision beyond like, external, you know, measures of success. So I'm starting off by saying that because what makes it easier for me to acknowledge that part of me that wants to drive the fuck off and never come back is knowing that showing up for these things is the most fulfilling thing I could possibly do when they are aligned with my truth, with what makes me feel alive. It's like, yeah, it's hard work, but it pays off with this feeling of fulfillment that I could never access before that moment broke me down and I started finding myself and what I actually want to create with my life. So it's still a challenge, but the journey started with like, How can I even hold things together that are not even aligned with who I want to be in the world, right? And allowing that to go to shit. So then I could first find out who I am and who I wanted to be and what I wanted in relationship, or regardless of relationship, what kind of man I wanted to be, regardless of external measures of success, and then start building upon that so that I could always come back to that whenever shit gets hard, because it still gets challenging as fuck, you know, so that's that's kind of like the high level of of where increasing my capacity to Hold both really started is in having no capacity and no understanding of what it is that I was holding and why.

Jacob O'Neill: 10:17

Very relatable, very relatable, man, I'm sure there's I kind of want to speak into that piece around gathering the understanding and the intellectual, I guess the intellectual data on, you know what is going on, and that is one part of the puzzle. I I think for a lot of people, understanding something intellectually is is quite often the first step, especially when it comes to emotions, nervous system regulation, being in the being in the body. But it is only one part of the process, right? And I think that's where a lot of people get caught up, and where we can become, well, I know for me, when I've learned something or understood it very it's only a matter of time until I have to go through the actual embodiment process, or the somatic process of like, clearing out what. What that new level of awareness has given me access to?

Unknown: 11:11

Yeah, well, you know, I like the and this is really just like the wording that I gave it to help men that I work with understand. It's like emotional intelligence. Really. I think there's three stages. There's awareness, right? So emotional awareness is a term that we hear often. It's like, I feel sad, right? I feel happy. Then there's understanding, okay, why do I feel happy? Why do I feel sad? I understand that this is coming from, you know, this experience that I had that maybe resembles something that's made me sad in the past, and then I feel like there's like, resilience, regulation, right? You can kind of that that's kind of like the somatic piece of like I feel the emotion in my body, I can interact with it, and also just just because I have the feeling doesn't need the it's a doesn't mean it's a requirement for me to meet its need right now, but also understanding how to create space for it to move through me, right? And I think that was my biggest challenge. It was like I understood the Wheel of Emotions, like I understood all this stuff, and I was even like, reading some books on how to navigate my relationship and David data away of the Superior Man. And during that phase, I remember reading that book, and it was like these, like, massive breakthroughs. It was like, wow, like, you know, I need to be a better leader. I need to create more structure. I need to this that, you know, all these different concepts, and then conflict would happen, and it would all just go out the window. It was like, fuck, why? Why is it that I know I'm experiencing sadness, I understand that it's not the appropriate time to bring it forward. But when I'm in it like, it's, it's, I'm projecting it onto my partner, and, you know, creating a safe space for her to open up to me, right? So all these concepts, it's so beautiful. With social media, you know, like so much information, literally, you can search for anything. There's literally no excuse if we're stuck somewhere. Even chatgpt, you can say, make a list of the best authors around this topic. Help me out here. It'll give it to you. And it's fucking beautiful that it's accessible. But man, like one thing I see with what you just brought up the most in men is the information overload, and sometimes, like, depression and anxiety that comes with it, because they know what's possible. And I definitely felt this way. Sometimes I feel this way, and it's usually a sign that I'm not embodying whatever I just learned. It brings us anxiety and depression because, like, you know what's possible, and you just don't know how to access it, it. You don't know how to be the thing that you see in front of you. And that's why this conversation is so important. Just like, how do you bring into the somatic understanding of emotions, understanding of regulation, and not just men, need to regulate themselves more, because that's that most valuable asset anybody could put that up on their stories because they saw someone post it. But to actually be able to regulate yourself, you gotta, you gotta go into the dojo and fucking put it to practice. And sometimes it's a challenging and painful journey.

Jacob O'Neill: 14:51

100% man, 100% this is, this is, I'm loving this conversation already. This is, this is solid. I because I get quite aggressive, because I'm so all about the somatic I throw the books in the bin. I don't want to like it's ironic that we're on a podcast like that. Don't listen to the podcast. Listen to the podcast now. We don't need anything. And I can be a little bit of a people call me a bit of a cowboy in in this way, I, because I, most of my work has come through somatic practices, like I started in the in the medicine, medicine space, working with the plants. And I'd never done a personal development. I'd never read a book, I'd never done anything. And I got exposed to the ceremony, and that was where I took a deep dive on that path. And then I started to gather and read books. And those books actually helped me understand what I was feeling like. I really just want to before I because I know I'm just going to give a bit of a disclaimer, I can be a bit top heavy, a bit lopsided on like somatic, somatic. So I just want to say, like, awareness is a really important part of the process, and understanding things is really important. And I've learned that with a lot of my clients, is actually for them to trust me, to take them through an experience, actually helping them understand something is in. Important, but we don't stop there. So you obviously had a lot of information, and you understood things. Man, what was the next step for you in you? And also, I'm very much been in this sort of season with Meg, going through her rite of passage, of birth, coming up, I've found it really hard to be compassionate and have capacity with her. And I can tell, I can see the parts of me that are projecting, like my frustration, my my anger in passive, aggressive ways. So, man, I'd love to know what was, what were the practices or the work that you got exposed to, or that you engaged with that took you from like, Oh, I understand it, to I'm now in the I'm able to clear out what's there and regulate my, my nervous system, build this resilience and fortify my my structure, to be able to hold my vision and my my relationship. Yeah,

Unknown: 17:03

well, man, just honoring, you know, we spoke about this a little bit before we hit record, like just honoring you for talking about, you know, for for, for, you know, where you're at in your journey of, of you know, your rite of passage, of becoming a father, right and, and, like you said, podcasts or information. So let's just take a moment right now. I'm curious to hear right if we just and anybody listening, you know, if you just take five seconds check in with ourselves, I'm curious how you feel right now, with you know, this threshold approaching, and Then I'll check in and share how I feel. I

Jacob O'Neill: 17:50

I'm, I'm so scared of fucking it all up, that's I'm, like, terrified that I'm going to get it wrong. And that has me feeling anxious. It has me feeling, I don't know if the right word is urgent, but I'm, I feel erratic. I feel so far from present. And yeah, man, like, that's where I'm erratic. I'm an anxious mess. Man,

Unknown: 18:19

bro, thank you. I'm sure you know someone's listening to you say that maybe they're not about to become a father. They could resonate in some way, right? And I'm not about to become a father. As soon as you said that, I was like, yeah, there's a part of me. Every podcast join every conversation, is a part of me that feels like I'm is afraid of fucking it all up, right? Every time I'm leading, every time I'm responsible for someone's well being, I feel like I'm gonna fuck it all up, right? And that part of me that feels erratic as well just checking in with myself right now, you know, I feel a little bit of that, that hearing you definitely woke that up for me, and also feeling really empowered. You know, I'm crossing a threshold and and just feeling really empowered and feeling grateful for the way that my partner is showering me with love lately and and recognizing all the work that I put in. So I'm bringing some of that. And just wanted to take a moment to do that, because we're talking about emotions. I mean, you know, like anybody who's listening is literally just pause it right now, check in. Like you don't have to tell anybody, but just owning it without shame is really what I wanted to answer your question with. It's like the first step, you know, was one hearing, hearing or reading. I don't know if it was on a podcast or a story or a book I was reading, was like talking about, you know, releasing the shame around those emotions and those feelings. And there was a part of me that for so long, was like, no, like, I can't feel these things. They don't belong in this space. They don't belong in in in in my work. They don't belong in my relationship, you know? So that was like, whoa, what do you mean? Like, it's helpful for me to just acknowledge my feelings and not put them aside, ignore them. The next practice was really finding spaces where I could feel them. You know, I remember first time I was in a men's group, and maybe I was frustrated with my partner. Maybe there was something for me to take ownership of, in a way that I needed to show up more regulated and grounded, but I still received the space to feel that frustration. It was like, hold up, but like, I've I've got to do better, right? You know, it's like, no, but wait, yeah, we're not saying, Go curse your partner out, but it sounds like you're angry. Let's create some space for you to express that anger, right? So that was like another thing for me. It was just like, it's productive for me to express my anger. What like? And just having that space to feel it was like, every fucking time, bro, every time I did it, I would, you know. Uh, feel lighter. I would feel like, whoa. I actually feel, uh, less anger because I allowed myself to express that, and then that translated into me showing up into my relationship at the next moment of conflict, or even resolving that one, like being able to take ownership without like, you know, raising my voice or closing my heart, because I had expressed it and created space for it. So I think really having a safe space where men can I think anybody this applies to anybody men can share, express, have other people hold that emotion, that thought, that feeling, without judgment and without any expectations. You know, it's like those men that held space for me the first couple times I stepped into a men's group, first time I worked with a coach, first time I went to a workshop that did some sort of somatic practices, it was like they didn't care if I did or I didn't. They just wanted me to have the opportunity to to move closer towards my my intention, which was to be my most authentic self, and that they reflected to me that it had worked for them, and I was also witnessing other people doing that so that that's that's what I would invite. It's like just checking in, connecting with that emotion and acknowledging the shame, and then just like doing the best to just say it's okay to feel this way. And, you know, does it mean that I need to project it towards my partner or swallow it? And, you know, avoid facing it because, you know, my partner is not pregnant, but I've I feel that from time to like, Fuck, I just want to, you know, curse her out or, you know, flip the out for something that I got impatient about or felt mad about, you know. So hopefully that that makes sense.

Jacob O'Neill: 23:19

Yeah, man, makes a lot of sense. The two things I took from that were, it's important to do this, this kind of work with others. It's not just a solo practice. I think what you said around like having people be like, we're going to hold space whether you want to do this or not, and we're not going to judge you whether you do it or you don't. And you got to witness other people in their process as well and normalize it. I think that is such a such a beautiful thing, and that, you know, once again, reading a book is a solo practice. Listening to a podcast is something you can do on your own. So when you actually get in the room with others, there's this thing that happens where you have this, this whole new dynamic. And that's why I love men's groups. That's why I love any, any practice that we stand in a circle. I know magic is going to happen, because there is going to be this beautiful space that is created. So that's the first one that I took, and I'd love to hear a little more about some of the stuff that you've done in those spaces. And then the second thing was, what I have am reminding myself was like when I go and actually process my emotions, you know, in an appropriate way, in a circle with other men, with, you know, within my own practice, it's when I come back into my relationship, my communication is so much better. It's not loaded. It's not like a loaded gun that's about to go off. It's not there isn't eggshells that I'm tiptoeing around or I'm not my partner doesn't feel like a burden. It's like I've actually got the capacity to communicate what is going on for me, and not only what's been going on, but what my desires are and what my boundaries are. Because when I give that containment to Meg, she that's all she's really looking for. She's looking to know where do I stand what, what, where is our connection at and when are we actually taking the time to drop in and cultivate our intimacy outside of both of our jobs, outside of the the chores of the house, outside of the community that we're a part of? Like, when are we prioritizing each other and making sure that we we own that that's an important part of our lives, because we, at the end of the day, like that's our primary role is to be lovers. I've got friends, I've got work mates, I've got people that I get but lovers is our primary role. When are we actually taking time to be that? And that's, you know, just last night, we're up up having a huge, huge process around my lack of communication, because I'm jacked up with emotion right now. So thank you, man, for for just shining a light and giving me the awareness with with your story there.

Unknown: 25:57

Yeah, yeah. You know, I think what you shared there's, there's a difference between that. That is the difference between projection and revealing. Right? It's like when we process our shit in in spaces outside of our relationship, we can then bring into the relationship as a revealing, like, you know, right now, feeling very frustrated and has nothing to do with you, but XYZ, right? Like that, that, that is a revealing versus like, you know, maybe not even mentioning it, but snapping with passive aggressive remarks and and then when you do address it, perhaps, you know, saying something that, when we do address it, saying something that doesn't necessarily align with, you know, how we actually want to show up in relationship and create that intimacy. So, yeah, I think, I think that's, that's the biggest thing. It's, it's because, you know, we could easily pendulum swing to the other side of, like, I've been projecting my emotions. I don't like how this feels. My partner is getting turned off. We're growing further from apart from each other. So I'm going to just shut down, avoid my emotions completely and not be vulnerable. And you know, there's a lot of conversation social media everywhere, of like asking men to be more vulnerable. And yes, that is important. We do need to create spaces for men to feel more comfortable being vulnerable. And our partners don't want to be our therapist either, right? So it's like having these spaces allow us to navigate it, to explore it, to go into the depths of it, to feel it, and then to bring it back in a way that feels integrated. And it's like, Hey, I'm feeling this way, and here's what I'm doing to navigate that. Just want you to be aware of where I'm at. And I found that when I do that in my relationship, it almost even turns my partner on. Sometimes, you know, it's like, here's my shadow, or here's my feeling, or here's the thing. Just want to let you know I'm feeling this way, but it has nothing to do with you. And there's almost like a, like a trust, I guess, that she gets, she feels from them like, Okay, well, he's not perfect, and he's owning this that's, that's fucking hot, you know. So just honor you for, for moving like that in your relationship. I know, I know for myself, it can still be a challenge. And just always having even just a friend to call say, I just had my men's team call yesterday, and it's like, Fuck, I don't have another one till another week or two weeks, it's like, just having a buddy, having a homie that you can ask for three seconds. And literally, there's times where I'd be like, Dude, I don't need advice, I don't need reflections, I don't need coaching. I just wanted to call and say, I'm fucking pissed right now. And, yeah, I just needed a space so I can share that and and let it out. And that automatically, just like allows me to show up more grounded wherever the you know, wherever it is that that I need to show up, whether that's relationship or my business, because my my business, the business is, is as much the reflection, the expression of the feminine as my partner. And sometimes I want to say, the business, light it on fire and walk away too. So it's like, sometimes I just need that space, the friend, and be like, dude, this has happened, and it's just it's bothering shit out of me. Just needed to share it and then come back to the business with some love.

Jacob O'Neill: 29:38

But so it's that is like, exactly how I feel at times now, like I've got this beautiful business that wants that wants more of me, that wants me to go deeper and more and have more impact. And gather, you know, gather more more finances. And then my relationships like, I want more love and I want more depth. I want more intimacy. And these things are, if I'm not filling my cup, I then see these two things as they're taking from me. And then I've got to protect myself from these two things that want more of me, more of me, more of me. And I get super defensive and like you're saying, it's not necessarily that we go and, like, project that specific emotion. Like, I don't go up and start yelling at at Meg if I'm feeling angry or frustrated, but my body language is like you do is completely and utterly closed, like, I cannot, I cannot hide my closure. And if you've got a you know, for anyone that has a woman that's walking this world connected to her feminine core, she will know, she will know you could. There's no way you can hide it. You think that you're doing a good job of hiding your closure or your frustration. She sees straight through that and it and it's and the truth is, it is such a, it is such a, like you said, a turn on for your woman, when you bring awareness to that, and she doesn't have to guess, or she doesn't have to feel that. For you, she's like, what's up? If you like, for me, it's like, hey, my love. The truth is, you know you'll be and this is like, real time, man. For me, like. Hey, lover, you're about to give birth to a child that I'm terrified of the responsibility about, because this is what I've wanted my whole life. And when I get what I want, I get really nervous that I'm going to lose it, and that's a huge thing for me. I've always been so scared of actually getting what I want, because when I get what I want, I'm terrified of losing it, and I don't know how to actually enjoy the that the thing that I'm getting, and I'm scared that I'm gonna fuck it up. And I've also got this big vision of bringing men together on the land, and that's a that's really alive for me right at the same moment that becoming a dad is also really alive for me, and it's so and like having to navigate the the balance of both of these things is is causing me so much internal grief. And like being able to actually commute, and I'm saying that to you, bro, I'm not going to have to go and sit down and say this to mega you're the bro right now. That's That's hearing me in this. And, yeah, that's that just having that dialog, or having the capacity to then bring it to her in that way. She now understands where I'm at. She doesn't have to guess, through her own feeling body, what's going on for me. He's closed. Why? Or I can feel his standoffish. Am I a burden? Am I? Am I asking too much of him?

Unknown: 32:27

And it creates a projection cycle, exactly.

Jacob O'Neill: 32:30

And then she's worried that she's projecting. And then she's sort of like, Meg, Meg's going, I'm sorry that I'm I'm too much, and I'm like, actually, like, I just haven't I can see that this is a creation of my own, my own unwillingness to feel what I need to feel so I can communicate what's actually here.

Unknown: 32:53

Yeah, man, I'm feeling, feeling the depth of that. And just really appreciate you sharing because it, it deeply resonates, you know, the the part that stuck out for me, you said, when you get what you want, you're afraid of it, you know, going away, like, there's, there's a part of me that feels like, when I get what I want, like, there's gonna be the shoes gonna drop. Like, where is this? Where is the shoe ready to drop? And then what that, what that leads me to do in my life, is like, if, if it doesn't drop, and there's no chaos, I'll create it. I'll create it in order to feel productive, in order to feel like, you know, I'm doing something, in order to take my mind off the discomfort of the fear of possibly losing it. So I really resonate. Just appreciate you sharing that. And I don't think it ever goes away, you know, I don't think it ever and that's another thing that I needed to learn and really help me, that that goes back to compassion, like knowing that it never really goes away. We just get better at integrating it, navigating it, regulating it, and then it, and then it goes away, maybe for some areas of our lives where we feel more confident and maybe have created evidence there's nothing to worry about. But then we reach another threshold. It sounds like you're at a threshold, right? You're stepping to the next evolution of your men's movement, and then next evolution of relationship and of life as a man, becoming a father. It's like it's going to rear its head, right? Because I think there's just, it's, it's, it's a protective mechanism. It's a loyal soldier. I forgot who I heard say that, you know, just like it's ready to protect us whenever something new is showing up in our lives. And maybe when we were young, you know, both of us had this, you know, would have things that we enjoyed, and they would get, just like, swept from underneath our feet, you know. So I think the only way to to really like, allow ourselves to step into the next stage of our personal development or growth on this journey is to just almost like a like, you know, the Olympics just wrapped up. I was watching the Paralympics, and it's like a baton being passed in a relay race, you know, rather than, like, running away from that part of us, rather than like the, you know, looking at it with, with anger, disappointment and snatching the baton. It's like, bro, thank you for thank you for caring so much that you just like popped up in this really new space and in time in my life. I appreciate you for keeping me safe all these years and for reminding me to, you know, take note and be aware of what's going on right now, so I don't take it for granted. But I've got it from here like I've got it from here like we we've got this we've cultivated the capacity to build this organization, to build this business, to be of service in this way, and to and to be, you know, a. A father, a leader, a partner. And then there's the other piece too, I just want to weave in. It's like, always checking if it's an if it's in alignment, right? Because oftentimes what I see, seeing within myself and seeing with men I work with is like, there's this vision felt maybe aligned at some point, and then new inspiration came, and maybe things evolved, and I could easily get attached to what it was supposed to look like, you know, like I said, I was gonna, you know, create this program by this date, and it was gonna be this build up and, you know, going back to the numbers of, like, 10k months and all this shit. And we, we maybe don't listen to the need of the moment of like, oh, actually, you know, it will be fulfilling right now. It'll be a stretch, but it actually feels really aligned with what I can bring to the world. F I like, my, my, my, my greatest, most like authentic expression of myself would be maybe doing one retreat this year, not two, you know, and putting some of that energy to this new like creature that's coming into your life, right? So that's something I always like to bring you know, because there's a lot of a lot of information about men. Need to hold more men need to cultivate the capacity to you know, and that's my tagline, is increase your capacity to lead in love. That doesn't mean that you know you're you're going past your limit, and that doesn't mean that you're taking on just because you can't, right? It's like just because you can doesn't mean you have to, or you should, but increasing your capacity allows you to, allows me to show up when the time demands it, and then to also just say, baby, tomorrow I'm going away. I'm not going to be available. What do you need to feel taken care of? So my co founder, like bro tomorrow, I'm not doing jack shit, going on the hike. Do you need anything from me? And then that whole day, not holding a single damn thing so that I can come back when you know the things in my life to You know, do need me to show up at that capacity?

Jacob O'Neill: 38:33

Yeah, bro, that framing is so beautiful, like the way that you framed that for your partner or for your co founder, it's like, I'm not just going on the hike. I'm actually informing you where I'm at and what I'm doing, why I'm doing it, making sure if there's anything that you need before I go, that I that I put those those, put those things in place. I've been fucking that up the last month, definitely, I definitely haven't been having that level of of of providing context. And I think that's that's a beautiful thing. I think if anyone was to take a real nugget from today's podcast. It's like, it's that hey, and that was probably from you checking in on with yourself. Hey, maybe you because, like, for me, bro, I'm open, open, open, open, open. And I hold and I'm open, open, open, open. I stay open. I try to, I try to fill my entire capacity, and then all of a sudden, it's like, not close, everyone get away. And I'm either crack, I'm either blown wide open or locked shut, and I'm learning to be more like a camera lens, and I'm like, Oh, actually, what's in my focus right now? Do I want a wide focus and be open to everything, or am I zooming in? I'm just being, like, single, focused in my relationship or on myself or on the business, and that has been a a big thing for me, and like, what I heard in that beautiful way that you framed it was like you were setting a boundary with love. It was like, hey, hey, lover, I'm I'm taking tomorrow for myself. And is there anything that you need to be taken care of while I'm away, because I'm going on a hike, I'm not going to have phone service and be connecting it with myself filling my cup. Is there anything that you need? And that's like, for me, what I heard that was like, it's like, the most beautiful setting, like, Hey, I'm not going to be available tomorrow, but I really love and care about you. What can I do to make sure that your needs are met? Because I have a responsibility as a man in this relationship.

Unknown: 40:23

Yeah, you know what? I'm happy that landed. And you know what really taught me, I think it's, it's based on a framework that my teacher, John Weinland shared once a couple years back. But what really taught me, the power of that was rite of passages. Because going away, you know, I go away eight days, well, I go away for more than eight days, but I'm out of service completely for eight days twice a year, and it's a long time. And you know, my partner fully supports my mission, my vision. She's turned on and excited. It about my work and just how committed I am to it. But also, you know, she's she craves love, she craves presence. So when those times come up, sometimes, you know, she gets a little flustered and and would rather me not go right, especially if there's anything else going on at home, regardless of what it is. So just saying, like, I'm going to be gone for eight days in May instead. I mean, I go away next Friday for eight days, right? And I'm flying Tuesday, so that's eight days plus an extra like five, five days on the back in the front end, and at least a month in advance. Just saying, My Love, I'm going away for eight days. My flight is on this day, and I don't come back to this day. Like, what do you need? And there was a nice list, right? And that allowed her, like, we just had, we just had our landlord come in today and fix the water heating system. And I know if I hadn't, like, put that on the list and done something about it, maybe, you know, it could have waited a bit longer, but I know it, she wouldn't have been too happy about it. Would have came up while she was alone, like, Fuck, this cold water, right? And then and and she would have brought it up when I got back. And it's not about the cold water, right? It's not about this list. It's about, can I trust that he will do everything can't take care of me even when he's going out to battle, right? Quote, unquote, like his mission. So it's helped me tremendously, just like, understand what she needs, and then that helps me be honest with her about which of those needs I can meet which is another thing. Like, I I've gotten stuck on that part of like, she gives me the list, and I'm like, fuck. And then two weeks beforehand, I put everything on my plate. I try to do all the things on that list. I make another list for my business, and I try to do all that shit. And then by the time I go out to guide, I'm like, burnt out because I spent two weeks on calls back to back, you know, writing shit, fucking the dealing with the landlord, like, literally everything. And then I'm resenting her, right? And I'm resenting my business. So it's like, receiving the list so that ahead of time, I'd be like, my love, I can do these five. Is there anything else that you feel like is a top priority? Can these wait and then being willing to say no, which I think, even though in the moment, might stir up some things for a partner also turns them on, is like, I can do this, and I'm committing to that because I want to support you. I want you to feel taken care of, and I fucking love you. And these I can't do, I'm sorry. Can you ask, you know, your friend if she could do this, or can this wait till I get back? And that just saves so much, like confusion, conflict, and it creates compassion. Because just because I'm a masculine man in my relationship doesn't mean I have to hold it all, and I also need her support and to be met, where I need some things as well, right? Which, which? You know, there's, there's a one thing I love. And I always tell my partners when I come back from trips, the house just has this energy. She cleans, like, the day before the candles are lit, you know, there's flowers, the plants look like they've been watered, like, like, just the right amount. Everything just feels like, ah, you know, like honey and, and that's, that's something that feels good, and she desires to do more of that. When I do the pieces like, you know, hang up this picture frame, call the landlord, give the dog a vet visit, you know, all these little things she wants to, not as a reciprocal. I have to. She wants to offer me more of her love. So that's, that's something that's gone a long way for me and and I think any man that I've seen do that, it just, it just brings so much more love into the space.

Jacob O'Neill: 45:24

Yes, yes, yes. So so much there. And I kind of want to, like, second what you said, it's not about you ticking off the list and being, you know, oh, he's done all of the things. Now I'll give him what he wants. That's not that like we talk about data's work. That's that sort of 5050, relating. If he does this, I'll do this. If I do this, he'll do this. But it's almost like because I love this woman, and because I care about her and her well being is important to me, I'm I'm willing to do what needs to be done, because I'm going to go away and serve my mission and do the work that I'm here to do. And when I come home, I want to come home. I want to I want someone to come home to one of one of my my. Bros lino, he said that he's like, bro, what do you do when you finish your vision quest or you go out and you do your ceremony? What do you do? He's like, You go home. And who do you go home to? The people that you love. So they're pretty important, aren't they? And I was like, yeah. He's like, so it's pretty important to give, you know, give them some of the time and energy that you give your vision or your mission, right? And I was like, yes. He's like, though it's both. And I was like, Yeah, that's so true, and I have a habit of getting fixated on one or the other, and rights of passage have been huge in showing me how to be more to being more harmonious in my approach to my relationship and my vision and that that that was like, I just want to sort of circle back, and this may be true for a lot of other guys that are in that kind of growing or building their kingdom phase. I thought I could only have either a really good relationship or a really successful business. I couldn't have both. And now I'm learning it's about, Oh, I get to have both, and I get to they get to grow together like maybe I'm not the millionaire that I thought I'd be, or maybe my relationship isn't as deep and as intimate as I want it to be. But when I actually acknowledge where I'm at and what the next steps are in both of those arenas, I can actually move with intention and integrity and not over overreach or over promise and under deliver in either of those. And I guess, yeah, man, I'd love to know, like, with the rights of passage work that you guys do. Like, how do you how do you see that influencing you know, how has that influenced you and your capacity? Or, how do you see that in the clients or the men that you work with. How do you see this rites of passage work, which I'm like, I'm I just wish, wish it to become the most normal thing in the world. How do you how do you see that impacting these men and their relationships and their work?

Unknown: 48:01

Yeah, great question. Well, I'll start off by pointing out something you brought up like it reaches a point where, where they feed each other, the relationship and the business and the mission. It's almost like they nourish each other. You know, you go out for the vision and for your mission and to to deepen your capacity there, and you return, like you said, back home to the people you love, they feed that part of you, and then the other way around, you know, the vision gets to the mission gets to feed the the people you love, right? Because you show up even more powerfully. And you know, for for myself, I mean, four years ago was when I did my rite of passage. And it was one of the most powerful experiences I ever did. It was very humbling. It was like, I remember I wanted to, you know, I was thinking about what kind of man I want to be on the other side of this. And there was, like, this warrior king energy, like this, just want to be a king. You know, I think it's like the you know desire of any you know young man. And I got humbled really quick, one of my guys just like, Yeah, well, have you been the best warrior you could be? Have you been the best prince that you could be? Right? You know, in Psych, and we look at depth psychology and even archetypes, they say that, you know, man doesn't really step into his king until like 5060, years old and in the but just having guides that again at the deepest level had no expectations from me. Wants me to own my power, like step into my power, claim my seat at my table and, well, hold on. Like, you know, let's not get ahead of ourselves and and trip over ourselves here. Like, how can you be? What would it What? What kind of a gift would it be if you brought more love into your warrior face. What? What, how would your relationship look like, right? So there was like a going back to integration, like going on doing this work, kind of reminded me of all the things that I already knew about myself, but was not making a change on or was not integrating. It was like, Wow, if I didn't learn a single other thing right now, everything and I focused on integrating and embodying what I already know my life would change drastically, right? It's like, drastically. I don't need to read another book to you know? It's like, and just facing off of those parts of myself that you know maybe want to skip, skip the line and go to that leadership position, feel good about myself and be seen, and all these different things like that, that itself increased my capacity to be a better leader. It's like to be sometimes you got to pick. Up, you know, chop wood and carry water and like that has a bigger lesson than, you know, standing in the front of the room and teaching what, you know, what rite of passage is about. It's like, you know, being being willing to carry the water and to chop the wood, to keep yourself warm and to keep everyone hydrated is sometimes it has given me more insight into how to it has allowed me to increase my capacity in both my mission and my relationship more than, like a lot of other pieces of that work so with men, you know, we say, like the top three things is one conditions for clarity. So ultimately, it's like being out there by yourself. You realize that a lot of the answers come from within any books you read, or just kind of lighting those up. You know, we all read something. We had no idea about it, but as soon as you read it, there's this light that just lights up. You're like, holy shit, that's because there's a part of us that already knew that just didn't have the words for it, right? So it's like conditions for clarity, to find the answers within yourself, realizing your true power, which is both like your weaknesses and your strengths, like my both of those, there's power in both of those, as long as we honor them and are aware of them. Sometimes we can't be aware of them unless we're we strip everything away, like even the business responsibilities. Yes, building a business creates grit, create the failure forward, creates a lot of understanding of self, but like sometimes we need to step away from that and not do jack shit and just be in silence in order to really see what we're capable of. And then third is, is having community of men that can support us. You know, there's like the element of rites of passages, you're supported and guided by men right up to the threshold, and then you're on your own. But while you're on your own, you know that there's men out there who care about you. So So it combines this element, because sometimes with men's work, we can become codependent on our men's team. And there's like, and I see this as well, and I've read a passage work has taught me, of like, I've got my guys and I know that they've got me and I will step into the space to receive reflections and be supported and anchoring into my intention with whatever I fucking do. But just knowing that allows me to go a little bit beyond what I thought I'm capable of and trust myself when there's no one else around me. So I think those are the three things that I gained the most from rites of passage, which, you know, Bill Plotkin calls soul craft, right? It's like you're you're fucking going to the deaths that most people aren't willing to go into, and you're finding out something about yourself that the fucking world needs more of and the only way to find it is by stepping away from the world and going into the depths of like the pain, the suffering, the fucking doubt, the fear, the love, you know, like man I've I've seen men go into the depths of joy out there that They haven't allowed themselves to and that is, like heartbreaking, like that joy is vulnerability, you know. And like not allowing ourselves to go that deep into joy can sometimes be heartbreaking. So like going into those depths, the full range of all of it, I see being such a fucking gift in men's lives, has been a gift in my life, and whenever I see men come back across the threshold that look in their eyes, I've got something, yeah, like I've got a fucking gift, and I'm so excited to bring it back to my people that's, there's nothing like that. Man, this just fills me up and reminds me of my own, my own mission.

Jacob O'Neill: 55:07

Yes. Man, yes, that's the the quest, like, the right of passage, and coming back through the threshold with the eyes like, clear, and you can just see that there's something behind, and they're like, I'm bringing something back that, you know, and it's, and it's, it's not, I don't know, it's when you spoke about alignment and like, is this aligned? Like, for me, like going and doing my rites of passage that is, like, brought such clarity to what I am like, what I'm aligned to, and what is actually here for me to deepen with, whether it's a relationship or a part of my vision and the projects that I'm creating, and that, Like, there's almost like it's it's as if the resistance has been removed, and I'm out now able to fully give myself to what it is that I was always there. And yeah, man, that's we do a facilitator training. We got the guys in the sweat, and they all came out of the sweat, bro, and it was in. It was almost like they'd been they'd touch something that they they knew was there, but they didn't know how to reach. They all came out of the sweat after, you know, the songs and the four rounds, and they came out. And it was so beautiful to see them all. They were changed, and not so much were they changed men, but they were now men that had a deeper connection to themselves through through a through a through a rite of passage. And when they and I love what I think like for me, the practice is always like, how do I take this off the mountain? How do I take what I've, what I've, what I've cultivated, down the mountain, back into the marketplace? And that is why the the the men's work that I'm doing more and more now is around, how do we create appropriate experiences that don't have men just going to these retreats or these circles to trauma bond or to escape life or go for it. You know, go on a I call it going to the going to Disney World for the weekend, and you're thinking about all your problems, and then when you go back, all your problems are still there, but you don't, you've, you've kind of just escaped them, and you're coming back and just going back into your old ways. So I think what you spoke about in around that codependency, it's really important to have the the appropriate measures in place with these experiences for men, so they're not just, oh, men's works, my new hobby? No, it's a cornerstone of your life that allows you to be, go back and be more of who you are and and bring more joy, bring more discernment, bring more clarity, bring more direction. And I think that's for me that's been a a revealing journey of my like, immature kind of, oh, let's go do men's work and be loud and proud to All right, how is this actually serving me when I go home to my woman and my soon to be child? Man,

Unknown: 58:00

thank you for sharing that. I couldn't have said it better. You know, you mentioned trauma bonds with men's work. I mean, whether it's plant medicine, men's work, it's personal development, general books, right? It's like we can become so addicted to the highs of those peak experiences and of those, you know, those moments of like, of hits and breakthroughs and cathartic releases and and, you know, forget to, you know, enjoy life. You know, right now, like when you mentioned Disney World, what I was thinking was, you know, you have this experience, and then when you don't integrate it, you know, it's almost like you're you feel like you're happy. You're unhappy without it, right? So then you start fantasizing and kind of thinking about Disney World while you're having sex, while you're stressed at work, while, you know, like, I'm I'm exaggerating, but really, you're thinking about, like, this escape, and it's no longer like you mentioned a cornerstone, and it's like, how can you bring which, which has been my edge? You know, how can, how can I bring more joy into the present moment. Like, how can I be, like, happy with how things are right now? How can I, like you mentioned, bring the discernment, bring the accountability, bring the heart open, love that we all feel after a men's work experience, right like, How can I bring that right now to this moment and make my life Disneyland, you know, like and then also recognize that, you know, you can, you can trip and break a leg in Disneyland. You can trip and break a leg in in life too. It's like Disneyland is awesome. And you know, you can get pretty hurt, if you'd, you know, because life is life, and you're going to this, there's going to be some shoes that drop that you're not prepared for, and there's going to be some that you are and it does. None of it matters unless we actually take the practice off the mat. And like you said, onto I love that. You said marketplace, it's like we're giving a gift to the world, and that's really why we do it. Otherwise, it doesn't matter. Like the real work is with our partner, the real work is with our family. The real work is with our friends. The real work is with you know, your mom or your dad, which you're avoiding talking to, you know, raising my hand for that. Sometimes it's a part of me that's still, you know, it's like, where am I not being the version of myself that I accessed at these experiences?

Jacob O'Neill: 1:00:45

Yes, that's uh, we have this, this sort of cheeky rule in our, our our men's retreat is like, if you're going to come and be a part of the crew or part of the the lead team, one of the conditions is you have to invite your dad. And it's like, everyone's sort of that goes it's like, oh, I. Oh, cool. There's the edge. It's like, and that's always been a real thing for me. I'm like, Alright, whenever I'm feeling resistance to the next stage or something, I'm like, who don't I want to invite? Or who don't I want to talk to about this? Or who would i Who would I fear their judgment the most around and then that's been a huge one for me, and been a massive it's been so, yeah, it's been so beautiful to invite my family into my way of life and to not hide it or separate it anymore. And I think that's what, what I loved about and what you just shared then, is like, Yeah, can we actually bring these, like you said, with the when the vision feeds the family and the family feeds the vision, they become one. And that's been my practice, is like, removing those separation, separation between this part of my life and that part of my life. Oh, I can be super deeply vulnerable with my bros, but then when I'm, like, feeling disconnected from my sister and I feel like something's going on for her, I avoid it. I don't open up and start the conversation. And I did that recently, and you know, I got a whole lot of stuff reflected back to me where I really, really dropped her and the family unit. I had to do that to go and figure out who I was. But once again, I didn't give the right communication. I didn't say, Hey, I'm actually going to pull back from family time and go on this journey to reveal who I really am, because I'm not happy, I'm not enjoying life, but I just cut them off, and I just stopped texting. I stopped going along to things. I just stopped doing that. And I realized now, through opening up to that I had, I got some feedback that I didn't necessarily, didn't feel amazing, but it was illuminating and allowed me to realize, ah, I get to do something about that now. I get to prioritize these connections and not let the not let them fade. I get to actually re engage. And that, for me, was a, you know, a huge thing. So you saying about like they feed each other is such a a beautiful reminder for me and for anyone that thinks they have to separate family and work and all of these things. Maybe you do need to for a time, but there's going to be a point where these things all come back together and want to feed each other.

Unknown: 1:03:17

Yeah, I love that, and it just makes me think like I used to often feel confused, like but the part of me that shows up my relationship isn't necessarily a part of me that shows up in my business, and what you just said provides that distinction, right? It's It's like they get to meet. And do you have different facets of yourself that you get to express based on the needs of the moment and with your partner versus your sister versus your business? There's different parts of you that are going to, you know, be needed in order to to meet the moment, and when we allow them all to kind of converge in some way, it really just means that we're being authentic. It's like, I know who I am. I have, you know, maybe my parents won't accept it, but you know, this is who I am. This is what, what I what I'm bringing into the world and and sometimes that's without words, right? Something we say when guys, you know, come back and they're starting to integrate the journey is that your story gets to be shared in different ways, sometimes in words, right, and sometimes in actions, and people will notice, right? So even if you don't feel like your father would be open to hearing your story and that you fasted for four days and four nights on the mountain and why you did it, and maybe he, you know, whatever you showing up, if you claimed on that mountain, I'm going to be a more loving, heart centered man. You How can you show up as more loving, heart centered man and share that with him through action? He'll feel it. He doesn't need to know that it was because you did this thing, or this is, you know, he will feel it. And I think just acknowledging that allows us to take off, you know, the the pressure of like needing to have the right words to communicate something to someone, but rather like integrating it and taking risks and opening up our hearts when maybe the other person is not willing to, because we all have family member that maybe is difficult to navigate conflict with, right? Rather than pulling away going to live in Bali for five years, right? It's no judgment there. I lived in Bali too, but sometimes we could get caught up in like the safety of of of removing ourselves from the human experience, which is really, you know, just landing this piece here is like, one thing I'm really committed to is bringing men's work and just everything I do back to the human experience, to the culture, where I think oftentimes we can disassociate from that. And people are having different experiences and are at different. Ages of trauma and are and are, you know, just like bringing back, like everything we do to the human experience, and not judging anybody for not, you know, being at any stage or or years, or, you know, uh, quantity of plant medicine journeys or having like, any of that, like, everybody's just human, just trying to do their best. And the more we bring the work to, like, the culture and to the human experience, the more people feel safe and called to do it at their own time, including our parents, family and all the people that we interact with when we come back from our own experiences.

Jacob O'Neill: 1:06:56

Oh, brother, yeah, man, thank you. Thank you for this. Yeah, beautiful. That feels like such a full stop on on our conversation, and it's the piece that I took from that is like, everyone's on their own journey, man. And like, you get to be compassionate, and you also get to go on your journey. Don't hold back. So anyone listening just like, yeah, there's been so many amazing gold nuggets throughout this one, but I'm just really grateful that you've taken the time today, bro. Is there anywhere that you want to direct people if they're interested to find out more about what you

Unknown: 1:07:31

do? Yeah, it was an honor. Really enjoyed this conversation. I feel like we go on for days. Yeah. So, I mean, if anybody's curious about rites of passage in the States, go to mrmthreshold.com we're currently revamping the site. There's a lot of great information there, and it's deeply aligned with with what we're doing. If you want to learn more about my work, you can visit my website, Jose alejandro.co or Instagram, that's pretty much the social media platform where I bring you know all of my work kind of converges. So that's that's at our Jose underscore, Alejandro and and there's some links there. There's just, I try my best to treat social media like service media, so bring as much value as I can through that and and beyond that. You know whatever, whatever is aligned, will reveal itself and and will will be the next step for for you. Mm, right.

Jacob O'Neill: 1:08:37

Oh, man, I'll, I'll grab those links, and I'll put them down in the show notes, guys. So if you do want to check any of that out, head down below. And, yeah, man, it's just, just, once again, it's so beautiful to connect in with another man on the path that is in a deep service to a vision that is that I can get really get behind, and to hear you know that you, you know, in that deep, long term relationship with your fiance and and to Yeah, man like this, these these experiences for me, you know, sometimes it's just like, Oh, it's so nice to to share this with the world. But yeah, this one, this one feels like it's been just for me, bro. So thanks for making the time. Thanks for being here and I, um, I really appreciate you. Yeah,

Unknown: 1:09:17

thank you for having me. Thank you for taking your time and for sharing your heart, allowing me to share a little bit of mine as

Jacob O'Neill: 1:09:24

well, right? Um, bro, thanks for listening. Guys. See you next week. Big, love, yo, yo, yo. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of sex, love and everything in between. Now, if you'd like to stay connected with Meg and I, you can head on over to Instagram and follow me at the Jacob O'Neill and where can people find you lover,

Meg O'Neill: 1:09:45

at B dot. Meg, dot. O

Jacob O'Neill: 1:09:49

amazing. And yeah, guys, check out the show notes for all other information in regards to what we've got coming up. And yeah, we're super, super grateful that you guys for taking the time to listen in to this podcast. If you do have any topics or any questions like I said, hit us up on Instagram and we'll see what we can do. Apart from that, have a beautiful, beautiful rest of your day. Thanks for being here. Big, big. Love you.