Ep 89: Harmonising humanity, honouring nature and death as our greatest teacher

Hey lovers, welcome back to Sex, Love & Everything in Between! 

This week, Jacob O’Neill sits down with a powerhouse guest, Samson Odusanya, to dive deep into the themes of masculinity, pain, and what it truly means to create harmony in a world obsessed with control and balance.

Jacob kicks off with a heartfelt intro about how he connected with Samson through mutual friends and was blown away by his depth, presence, and the way Samson weaves truth into everything he shares. Together, they explore how modern society’s obsession with quick fixes and control often disconnects us from the natural flow of life—and how true harmony is about embracing change and flowing with the seasons of life.

They riff off on:

•The importance of voluntary discomfort and leaning into challenges as a way to grow as men.

•Samson’s powerful perspective on harmony vs. balance and how the latter is an illusion.

•Jacob’s emotional story of family, legacy, and the strength of the women in his lineage, beautifully illustrating the power of love and resilience through death and rebirth.

•How pain, both physical and emotional, is a necessary part of life’s initiation process, especially for men on their path to becoming fathers, husbands, and leaders.

This episode is a raw, vulnerable, and transformative conversation that will resonate with anyone looking to deepen their connection to themselves, their family, and the world around them.

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Transcript

Jacob O'Neill: 1:57

321, hey, lovers, welcome, welcome. Welcome to sex, love and everything in between. Meg is currently sitting out in the sunshine. I can see her out there reading a book with our little dog, and I'm on the podcast today with an incredible guest. I'm here with Samson odasanya, welcome, bro. So good to have you. So good to have you. Now with with my intros. You guys know that I like to I'm a storyteller. I like to let you know how this weaving has come to be. But I've been hanging out with one of my my bro, my bromance at the moment is with a brother, Ryan Moresby white, and he started talking about this guy, Samson, Samson, this, Samson, that Samson this. And I was like, tell me more bro. Um, Ryan's been on his own journey, and he can tell that story because it's his to tell. But he shared about how deeply held he was by you bro through some challenging times, and he shared some of the words and the insights that he received from this guy gets it like I was like, feeling I was like, this guy speaks in a way that makes me feel understood. So I jumped on, and I started following you on Instagram. And I love the the depth of of of presence that you bring online through the what I call the emerging truth being with what is right here. And then I started to jump on a few other of your podcast, bro, that you've been a rail one, which is an incredible listen, if anyone wants to go and check that one out. And then I jumped on the jetty Azuma one. And you guys started talking about death, and you started talking about all of these things, and it, I don't know if anyone else ever feels this, but when there's two other men speaking on a podcast, and it's almost as if you are feeling, it's almost felt, I felt I was being seen and heard and held through the conversation you guys were having. And I was like, This guy, this guy gets it. I'd love to reach out. And I reached out, bro. And you were so you were so on it. You're like, Yes, I'm in. Let's do it. Boom. And before you know it, bro, you know that was a week again. So I just want to say thank you for, number one, your service to humanity and your willingness to give, like, that's, you know, the that's what I really have taken from all of the the indirect experience I've had with you, and even just jumping on and you being, you know, so, so here, so ready to meet what is in the moment, man, I'm just super grateful. So thank you for being here on behalf of me and all the people that are listening to it. So, yeah, bro, thank you. Thank you so grateful

Unknown: 4:34

to be here, and thank you for the invitation. Man, yeah,

Jacob O'Neill: 4:41

epic. Man, I'd love to start off with dear of like in the world there is. There's so much information flooding us right now, and there's so many ways of like here get you know, here's the three steps. Here's polarity. It's going to fix you. Here's the here's the business. Ai plug in, bro, and it's going to get you to 10k months in 90 days, and then everything's going to be fine. Bro, like there's this almost, this disconnection from the essence of nature, which is that it is constantly changing, moving and evolving, and that it's a dance, and then it moves through the seasons. Bro, what's your what's your take on this? Because I know you've used the word harmony or harmony instead of balance, and for me, that that really rung true. And in a world that's constantly trying to control or contain and force things to be the same, what does harmony? What does creating harmony in your life mean for you, and how do you see that, you know, impacting the world at large?

Unknown: 5:38

Yeah, such a, such a good question, and there's so many layers to this, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna answer this in a multiple, multiple different ways that may tie it all together, you know to answer your question, so you know how I like to think and how I like to see things, ultimately, is understanding that when there's an effect, there's a cause that we may not be Present to so when we see the world of information, or when we notice that we're being bombarded with what seems to be these shortcuts, or these these expressions To try to compartmentalize the very complex and layered nature of us. For me, what I noticed is that there's a slight disconnect, and it's so interesting that you opened up with this question the way you opened up. Because if there's anything that annoys me more, it is the three steps to figure it all out, the five steps. To do this between you and I. It's funny, like I had a thought, and I swear to God, yesterday, and I was just going to do like a parody post that said four steps to change your life forever and never have to do anything. And it was going to say, do what works for you, right? Because there's so much coming at us, but or, and I also know a lot of it is coming from a good place. A lot of it is happening people actually don't know. And people don't know because they're disconnected from their voice, their truth. So for them, whatever makes them feel like they belong, whatever attracts a sense of safety or comfort or some sort of recognition of validation externally. I'm going to jump towards that because I have not developed a foundation yet to trust my own voice. That's part one. And then if we look at what has caused that, the system as we see it, and the many subsystems within it, is disconnected from nature, point blank period, and We can see that with how we try to compartmentalize what is whole in nature in many different subsystems in our system, for example, right? And I study a lot of the Ancients, ancient Africans, to be particular, the way they saw life was full listening. It was holistic. There wasn't just one way. There wasn't just one practice or one study, science, mathematics, medicine, spirituality, were all united. There was no medicine without spirituality. There was no music without science, there was no technology without spirituality. Everything coexisted because they understood everything related to each other. And I think where we've come to is that because we've been separated from one of our greatest teachers, which is nature, we have lost touch, first by losing our language. So the way we can communicate, the way we can speak to in the way we can listen. And when we lose our language, we start to lose the culture. We lose the energetic source of community communicating, because we don't just communicate verbally. There's also a non verbal sense of communication that we have. So we lose that, the more we start to drift away. When we drift away, we also lose Foundation, because we're not we're no longer planted pun intended in something that is actually so now we we're shifting into this reality. It's more of an illusion that has caused us to be consistently hungry because we're actually not feeding ourselves. We're not digesting we're not nourishing ourselves with truth. So because we're starving for truth based on living from an illusion, an illusion that, for many complex reasons, caused us to form a sense of self or persona, right? That is our mass or our character in the world we're now living from this place, but we know there's something deep inside of us that knows, like there's something incomplete with that, so we search for more three steps to do this, knowing damn well nature is not compartmentalized to three steps, five steps to do this in 90 days. Damn. Well, there's a process to every season as we observe it in nature, one step and all you gotta do is this, knowing damn well, observing an animal and what they have to sacrifice in order to have a successful hunt. I think what has happened is because we have been disconnected from nature, we have been more connected to comfort. And we're connected to comfort because our brains and our ego doesn't like pain. Part number two, I think, or three, and that's part number two. Now, lastly, to tie it all together, to answer your question, when we think about harmony, like versus balance, balance tells you that You got to hold the scales evenly for as long as possible, which requires energy. I gotta keep everything even kill ours energy. Just think about how much energy it takes to hold two objects in balance without trying to make sure you don't tip the scale. It's too much energy. Yeah. Whereas harmony asks, How can I learn to use this moment to coexist with another and coexist with another and coexist with another. I have two children, beautiful daughters. If I'm trying to hold it together in balance, I'm going to break. I'm going to break because trying to be in balance also means that I need to be rigid. And with rigidity causes it causes tension with harmony. There's the wisdom of knowing that there's adaptability and flexibility, because things are always changing. I got a five year old that's always changing. I got a five month old that is literally in the last five months, I felt like I've lived four different lives. Requires how I see it, what's landing for me right now, balance. And this may not be true for anybody, I'm just kind of speaking, what I'm feeling right now, balance is the denial of reality, whereas harmony is the acceptance of it, because it with harmony, we know change. Change occurs. Change is a constant with balance. I have to keep it all together. I have to keep it even keel. I'm always looking for the perfection in keeping it together, which is not reality. Now, are there moments where things come into balance, sure, but there's more space for harmony, because there's so many different facets and aspects to not just our nature as human beings, but to all of life. And again, if we look at nature, nothing is in balance, but everything is in harmony. In harmony. There are things where you consciously, where it doesn't seem like it should work, but it works. It works because of synergy. It's like music. I'm not sure if you're a musician, right?

Jacob O'Neill: 16:40

Love music. Love music. Yeah, yeah.

Unknown: 16:44

Like when you when you understand music. You know that every I used to play in the jazz band I used. Playing the orchestra I used to play in the marching band, playing the trumpet and I played the drums. And when you're playing with amongst a group of other people, talking about like, hundreds of other instruments, hundreds of other notes, we're not trying to keep balance. We're not trying to balance things out. We're trying to harmonize. We're trying to fill the pockets with our presence, with our notes. We're trying to make it work and coexist. And when that takes place. Music is beautiful, right? So I hope that answered your question, but that was just real for me in the moment. Yeah,

Jacob O'Neill: 17:47

I've got like two examples that I'd love, like two metaphors that came to me, though, and also with the with the people listening, like, I remember as a child, my mum would always try to spend the same amount on all of it, and it would just get outrageous, bro, like it would get crazy. She'd spend over $1,000 on each of us. And the reality is, man, I was happiest with the $25 soccer ball, because my sister wanted a saddle, a horse saddle, which was $600 I then also had to get a PlayStation, and I had to get all of these other things so it was fair to the imbalance man. And to be honest, I started to have surplus. I had too much when what I wanted was less. Man, nature's my biggest teacher. Like, I'm constantly praying to the great she, bro, the great mystery, the thing that the mother, that for all of us. And it was crazy to just think. Then I was like, Oh, my mom know that, you know, she loved us all equally, yeah, and that's when you said, it comes from a good place. Like it's someone from a good place, bro, like her heart can do. Her heart's done things that I will never truly fully understand it are possible. You know, the things that she makes me emotional thinking about her. I don't know why, but, yeah, that feels right. Man like to honor that I came through her body that was never meant to have children, and to honor that another three, my three siblings, came through her body, this body that was never meant to birth children, and that she wanted to know just how deeply she loved deeply she loved us through constantly giving. Just makes me really, you know, where that was coming from, that need for balance was from a good place. And, you know, I ended up being so deeply loved through and having, having everything that I ever wanted and more. But I can see how that can play out in in anyone's life where they're constantly trying to, you know, keep everything fair and keep everything balanced. And, yeah. Man, just want to shout out my mom right now. That's a beautiful, beautiful thing to to realize, beneath that, you know, could have easily judged her, but beneath that, it's, it's heart. Man, so thank you. Shout out

Unknown: 20:10

to your mom too. Man, your mom, you answer your thoughts, your mouth. You know what I was saying? Yeah, beautiful. The second No. So to those who are listening, when I talk about harmony over balance, I'm not saying balance is wrong. There's a time and place, there's a time and place for balance, but to try to live your life in a extremely balanced way is unrealistic to the truth and reality of how life actually unfolds. So I just wanted to be clear, because there's a time and place where balance is required, where balance is a thing, but to live your life according to that could be, could be very challenging. Yeah,

Jacob O'Neill: 21:17

yeah, beautiful, yeah. I love that. That's so yeah. The good one that I had bro was kind of like, you know, watering, watering plants in the garden and giving them all the same amount of water, or trying to, like, do that, and it's like, oh, some. And I'm just realizing that there's, like, there's these beautiful teachings, beautiful teachings that are just show, showing me that, ah, there is, you know. But then I'm thinking like, you know, when you put, you know, the weights on a rack, if you put, you know, all of the weight on one end of the rack, but you don't put. Knee on the other end, then it topples. So balance is, balance is a that harmony is kind of this, this deeper frequency, this vibration that we get to attune to, and then, yeah, meet life from that place is kind of what I'm what I'm taking from what you've shared, bro, and those three places that you take, you took us through was really, really beautiful. I'd like to circle back, if you don't mind, to the past. To the pain thing and the comfort thing of the modern world, and sort of weave this into a man's journey. Yeah. And I know for me, living in the modern world, in a first world country, being super privileged, that pain wasn't something that necessarily, I had a lot of comfort. I had a lot of comfort. But innately, pain was such a it was, it was a part of me that I love to explore. I got into action sports. I got I'm enduring sports now, but pain was such a deep teacher of mine. But I didn't consciously or appropriately seek it out. I just went looking for it unconsciously because I wasn't actually having I didn't have spaces to cultivate that. So for me, I used to get get pretty injured on my push bike. I used to do dangerous things just for the sake of feeling alive. And it was almost like I was trying to, like, break free of from this padded cage of my life. And I was looking for for for a sense of feeling, or a sense of friction or something to push up against. So for you, bro, like, I'd love to know, like, how important is it for me to to experience pain? And for me it's like, how do appropriate experiences of pain to fortify themselves as as leaders? Yeah,

Unknown: 23:49

that's another good question, something that I've learned in my personal journey and working with with men over the last five years, close to five years, is that for men In particular, our confidence, our growth is directly tied to overcoming challenge. This is why. And you know, when you brought up Jetty Azuma, I love his work, because in the modern world, which has shaped the modern brain. We've also lost, lost touch in connection with certain practices that would prepare us, that would initiate us, essentially, especially as men, namely rights of passages, right when a young boy was nearing the cusp of when death was calling, and metaphorical death was calling, the elders In the community or in the group, would know it's time to introduce that boy to a challenge, because that challenge right when he overcame it, that was his transition from boy to man. So again, here's that challenge, here's that pain. Now, pain does not necessarily have to be physical. It could be pain on multiple layers, but pain is something that is inevitable. And I think because this is like the we have the gift of technology, technological advancement, but the curse of the comfort that comes with it because of our so called advancement. And I do that with quote quotation marks, because there's there's this arrogance and ignorance that comes with the fact that we think we're advancing because our technology is advancing, but we're actually taking a few steps backwards because we're not developing properly. So the comfort is coming at a cost, because, namely, men are built to lean into challenge. You look throughout history, if it's the challenge of being a warrior and fighting, if it's a challenge of tilling and tending to the land. If it's the challenge of navigation of the seas, if it's the challenge of leading a kingdom, right, there's always been challenge, always for us to overcome. And I just think because we have not had the education in regards to that, the lacking of the development that's needed to fulfill or speak to our wholeness isn't present. So in my life, I had a lot of pain, not by choice. I had pain. Pain was inflicted on me by my caregivers, wounding naming my mother, looking back after years of you know, truly overcoming that and working through a lot of my shadows and my own wounding, that pain became something that was transformed into, into, I don't want To, it's not wisdom. It's like, it's like gold. It's not wisdom. And they could, they could, you can use them. You can use them similarly. But it was gold, and it was gold for me, because, you know the value of gold, like we all understand the value of gold and how beautiful gold is. I'm using gold specifically because it wasn't my value wasn't attached to the gold. No, my value was in the discovery of myself through going through that pain. I don't really feel that anyone can get to the depths of their soul without crossing through pain. Now I don't mean to scare anybody listening to it. I'm not saying that you have to go through pain, but because pain is inevitable and it's a part of this realm, I feel it is part of the bridge that's going to help you cross over to deepening the connection to your own essence. When I went through breakups, it's painful, but the breakup broke my heart open even more. I Right. When I was physically abused, it hurt. It was painful. But the depths that I went through to have to navigate the the self judgment that came from that. Having to go through this the Valley of my own shadow, to get to the other side, broke me even more open when my mom was aborted, deport, deported in 2005 and not seeing my mom physically for 16 years when it first happened, it's painful, but it broke me more wide open. Who is it? I forgot who said it, but I think it's Rumi that said. I think it was Rumi. They said the cave you fear entering, right? The cave you fear to enter is where your freedom is. It might not been, really, and in our modern world, again, it's beautiful, and there's a time for comfort that is not a matter of being in pain all the time. It. It's not even a matter of like looking for pain. No, it's a matter of knowing that pain is there and when it shows up. Can I invite it? Can I welcome it? Can I accept it as it's a doorway to my depths, right? If I don't feel my pain, then one How can I feel another's How can I see them? How can I witness them if I don't feel my pain, how is it going to heal? We didn't know that one, huh? A lot of us think that we can heal without feeling pain. No, when there is a wound, pain is a body, pain is a byproduct. And then when we let the pain take place, and we feel into it, and we let the pain feel us, then once we heal, it is the scar that reminds us of everything that we had to go through, which not only instills with women within us wisdom, but now a different layer of like trust, because we've already traveled through that situation, we've already overcome that. Now it's almost like we're collecting points towards who we are. So as men, we either choose control environments where we can practice leaning into discomfort or life is going to choose it for us, right? What is that saying? What is that saying? It says easy times create weak men. Weak men create hard times. Hard Times create strong men, and strong men create good times. So again, there's this, there's this hovering of harmony that has to take place. There's a time and a place. It's not it's not about suffering. This is about knowing that in order to keep you sharp, in order to keep you growing, in order to keep you in connection with the constant in nature, with his growth, change and evolution, there's a part of us that has to go with that, which is going to require pain, because with change comes Death. Dying is painful. I know you died many deaths,

Jacob O'Neill: 35:19

man, you're speaking my language,

Unknown: 35:24

but once we are able to know, and this is where, this is where true knowledge of self, wisdom of self matters, because nobody in their right mind wants to feel pain. Nobody does. It's like I'd rather not deal with pain, right? We have egos that are wired for survival. We have egos that are seeking to escape pain at all costs, right? And seek pleasure as a replacement. Like nothing in US likes pain, but when we could really connect with ourselves in a deep way and start to utilize what life is offering us, that could be painful and pain is different for everyone, no What I consider pain is different for what you may consider pain, right? The intensity of the pain is different for me than it is for you, the tolerance of pain is different for me than it is for you. So pain is very subjective and relative to each individual, but it's a necessary requirement you. Let's say you get through life without falling or cutting yourself or getting an accident physically. Kudos to you. But if you want to change and grow, you're going to go through some sort of pain and discomfort. I'll tell you this much, the soul doesn't feel pain. It just is collects the experience. It's like, oh shit. It is through the body and the ego that it experiences it, but it's not the thing that feels it. It's the animal in us. It's the ego in us that does not want to die, that is forgotten, right? It's unlimited nature that resists pain. That's why we run away from it. So the connection with the self is also about learning how to constantly integrate the soul and the ego. So and the ego. Our ego doesn't want pain, so we listen to the ego, we're going to be driven by it, and we're driven by the ego. It's going to be all about survival. But when we surrender to the soul, we know that pain is a part of evolution and growth, and the longer we resist it, the more painful it is, and it eventually evolves to suffering. But the sooner we can build up enough courage heart to jump in, lead in confront and meet it where it's at. The sooner we can experience our growth and evolution. So to the men listening, find a way to choose voluntary discomfort immerse yourself in and it's important to also acknowledge the consciousness that you do it from see people can choose to immerse themselves in voluntary discomfort because or from a place of self punishment. It's not what we're talking about here. It's actually not healthy. I used to do that because it's what I thought I was worthy of. I was I just I felt I was only worthy of feeling pain because I experienced so much of it, so my tolerance for was for it was high, but it fed my ego. I built a persona in that, but it wasn't healthy, because I actually wasn't growing. I was just perpetuating more cycles of pain that was unnecessary. So I'll really check in. If you're a man listening to this, be aware and conscious of where your need to choose discomfort is coming from, so it can be healthy and so you're not causing more harm to yourself. Yeah,

Jacob O'Neill: 40:18

man, thank you. Any threads there to pull on, but you just made me realize, like, there's a part either hop in an ice bath every day, then go and run a hot bath and actually just like, like rest. So for me, like resting is painful to the it's painful to the identity of I'm the strong one. I Yeah, man. And the other piece there too is men. Things will happen to you. Life will happen to you. But then there's also this consciousness of, can I choose to happen? Can I choose to step in and meet life and like and lean into these experiences that can fortify me to prepare me to be the man, the responsible man who can hold my woman, my children, my other you know, if I can't deeply feel, you know, the pain and the the initiatory yards that I'm here to walk, how can I hold my woman through her birth? How can I hold my woman through you know, times have changed. My children through times of outburst. And you've just kind of threaded some, some, some weavings that, before I got married, I went and did a 10 day hunt up north in the the Gulf of Australia with a with a guide. And I remember chasing down this, this, this small bull, and we tackled it under the ground. And I was so excited and ecstatic, and that the initiation was. 90s, and I was like, I tackled the bull, I did it, and then we tied it up. And my guide, Adam, said, bro, we've got to go and sharpen the knives now, and we've got to give that animal time to calm down before we kill it. Are you happy? Are you okay to kill it? And then sudden, all of that, like, I was like, oh

Unknown: 42:10

shit.

Jacob O'Neill: 42:12

So we went over and every sound of that knife, on the on the on the on the steel sharpening, it was like it was like this. It was like the shark that shot. And when we walked back over with the knife, opened my knife that my father had bought me, you know, 10 years ago, that I was going to go hunting with, and had finally used, and I kind of got the enormity of of you know, how disconnected from nature I was, from eating steak from the store, eating food from fast food outlets, and all of this stuff started to sort of collapse in on me, and I realized the the impact that my lifestyle was having, and There was this different type of pain as I plunged the knife into its chest and watched the life drain from it, from its eyes, I had this whole other worldly like emotional pain, man and and grief as I, as I killed this animal which was which was huge Man and to consciously choose that fortified me to like, step into my marriage in a whole other way of like, understanding the impacts of my actions and how that filters out into the world. Man, so is there, is there a conscious experience you've chosen that's fortified you as a man or a husband or a father? Is there something that you've consciously chosen to step into, because you've shared a bit about like, how, like life or someone can inflict pain on you, and then you get to go and turn that to gold through your own awareness and practice. But has there been something that you've maybe gotten in front of and being like, Hey, I'm going to consciously choose to initiate, to be initiated, to prepare for,

Unknown: 43:56

yeah, I mean, there are many I've had a hunting experience as well. It wasn't as big because I grew up like watching and seeing it. So what comes to mind? I used to work at a hospital for seven years. Started off as a patient sitter. So this is someone who would tend to I would sit with patients, some who were going through alcohol withdrawal. For anybody listening alcohol withdrawal is the only withdrawal you can die from. It's intense, like I literally was watching demons and people, right? And then I eventually graduated to being an orderly and then an ER tech. And seven years of being in that environment, which I don't think many people really understand what happens in those walls. So when I say I've seen it all, I've seen it all, but the very, the first, yeah, I remember, oh, man, I was 18, and part of my job description was to take deceased bodies to the mold, and I got the call. It's like, it's like, you know, it's part of your job description. And you're like, oh shit. Like, when are they going to call? And they called, and I was the only one. There's normally two of us, and I was the only one available. So I go to the morgue, I go get the gurney, and like you were sharpening the knives, and it felt like time was slowing and everything was more intense. Every step, every sound, felt amplified for me as I was grabbing the gurney, as I was walking, I felt like I can feel every everything slowed down. I felt like I could feel everything. And then I got to the room, and the the body bag was there, and I had to put the body bag on the gurney, had to push the gurney into the elevator. And there was this moment where I'm in the elevator by myself with this lifeless body, and I pulled the cover of the gurney just to look at the body, and I'm like, immediately, what what happened to me was like there was just a soul in this body, like it was just full of life, and now it's gone. I and I remember transferring that body into the morgue. And the rest of that day, I was not the same. I was not the same. And that event, I. Was a series of was it was a callous for a series of many other events in that environment where I was a part of hundreds of many people's Final seconds, part of my job description, too, was resuscitation, like doing CPR. I would be having a conversation with you like this, with someone talking to them, laughing, right? And the next five minutes of Code Blue, and I'm on their chest doing compressions, and they're dead. So being in that environment, for me, it made death very closer, but life even more closer. You know, people share about the presence they experienced from me, I attribute a lot of that to my time in the hospital, like watching somebody's soul leave their body. I saw it many times, many times, and I'm talking about people from all ages. One of the biggest for me was a six month old baby. I was I was no good for like, three days. Like, it's choking me up right now, and this is back to the thing of pain we're talking about. Death is inevitable, and there's not much I could have done, even the many days and months where I wished I was stronger, I was faster, to do the compression a different way, I couldn't save them. So when we talk about an initiation, or what essentially began making me a man. There was that. It was death. It was seeing it every day. He was feeling it. It was taking it on when I didn't know any other way to deal with it. I saw a fast death. I saw people slowly die, but I saw the many faces of it, and one of the one of the greatest gifts I got from it was, yeah, how closer brought life to me. So from that moment forward, when I'm talking to somebody, I'm there, I look in their eyes as best as I can when I shake their hand, even though the words may not, may not, may not, truly convey how I feel. I want them to feel me. When I hug somebody, I make sure that they feel me, because we truly don't know. They have no idea, right? And I think what you experienced with the bull was that was that, and to transition. Thank you for asking this question, because I think this is, this is a conversation that needs to be had as it relates to the modern world. I love our modern world. I think there are many beautiful things about it, so many beautiful things about it. But I think it's missing wisdom. It's like the it's like our modern world is like the teenager that's seeking to figure it out, the young adult just crushing it in life, right? But doesn't have the counsel of an elder, and we've lost touch with that. In fact, like we hide our elders, we try to hide our wrinkles, we try to stay young forever, doing everything not to die, and it's like, God, it's going to happen. But it's not a matter of using that as a way to scare us or put us into urgency. No, there's a level of depth when we know death is around the corner that we get to experience that makes life more richer part of our modern world. And some of what I see is that people aren't present because they're moving so fast to get to somewhere that's really. Be here, but they don't want to be here because of everything they would have to face in the present moment that the need to move all the time or go all the time or be somewhere else is keeping them from facing so I think we can learn a little from our elders. We can learn a little from the ones that are making their way back to where we came from. You know, I read something, and this is why I appreciate my culture so much. This is why I appreciate my upbringing a lot, the very, the amazing, amazing parts about because, even though as a child, I didn't understand some of the some of the things that my mom would drop and my grandmother would say, as a as a man, as now a father who has a Family, those subtle sayings ring true. They speak volumes. And there's something called Congolese babysitting, which is part of African culture, right? And we can all borrow from this. I think there are many cultures that practice this, but what they notice is that with older people who are nearing death, when they have their grandchildren present, or when they're around their grandchildren, they live a lot longer. Even though they're nearing death, they live a lot longer because new life just came in. Again. See the relationship with life and death deeper the child that came into the world in its youth and its purity and its essence. It's almost like it's bringing a gift from the world that the the elder is going to be going into, while simultaneously, the elder is bringing in, welcoming the child into the world that they're about to leave. And this is another reason why our elders are important, why death is important, why pain is important, because of all these subtle nuances, but again, it's like the note that's missing. It's like you're listening to a song, but you're like, damn, this song doesn't feel right because it knows that the note is missing. Yeah, we're trying to hide a very crucial part of life. You know what I mean? And as you're about to be a father, there's nothing that speeds up time more than having a child, like watching them grow fast versus noticing their growth is also directly correlated to your growth in aging. And I have many moments where I do meditate. I meditate on my death. What would it feel like if I'm not here? What would my daughters feel? Because it's the reality. But you know what that does? Snaps me back into life. All right, let's go. It's it snaps me back into life, into presence. So yeah, to very well answer that it's been death for me. It was that, it was that it was that moment in the hospital. I can't forget it like I'm like seeing it. I remember at burgundy scrubs all I can never forget that day, because that was what I would say, set the tone for how I started to relate to myself and the world around me.

Jacob O'Neill: 56:26

Yeah, man, thank you. I've been on my own like this. I don't know if you've had this reflected back to you, but you're you're very shamanic in the way that you speak. But I was on my own, like in a world journey then around my like I was my nan lost her first child. Her name was Annette. Lost her at 28 days. Never got to say goodbye. And that grief carried with her still, still carries it man. But. My mom got sick when she was 18, and the way that my nan speaks like the fierceness and the strength in this five foot tall woman, there's this story, bro, I'd love to just share it with you, because it's moving me right now, and I feel, feel, it's like I don't know why I'm just calling in the strength of the women right now in my lineage, but it's real for me right now, my mum got sick, right? And they took her two and a half hours to another hospital, and she got real sick, right? And they weren't gonna fly her that night. They weren't gonna fly her to the main hospital in the big city, another five hours away. And my nan stood there like a fucking warrior, bro, like the fiercest warrior, and she said, you put my daughter on that plane, and you take her now, and I'm hopping on that plane with her, and I'm not letting this I'm not losing her. I refuse to lose her. And there's a part of me that understands it, and I don't know how to communicate it, but it's like the death of her first daughter. Gave her, gave her the strength and the power to never, ever, fucking abandon her daughters now, and just, I'm just imagining what it must have been like for her to be stand in the face of, you know, the medical system and say, No, you take my daughter. I will not. And this is a woman from a small country town. That's, you know, she never flies on planes. She's never been overseas. Man and she went, and she spent over a year living in a city that she did not know, catching the train every day to sit by the side of her daughter like that. My mum died three times on the table. She's cut from from neck to to waste man and my my nan sat there every day and just like a like a warrior, and I just want to just honor the women in my lineage, man, just for that, that relationship that they've had to death and and what that's given me. Yeah, bro, as I welcome in. You know, my, my child's coming very, very soon, one of my grandfathers is on the way out, bro, this tension of death and life, it's a beautiful thing, and it creates this, this undeniable presence. And, yeah, man, I just want to honor you for, for for really bringing that through in me right now, as I, as I contemplate, the deeper, I guess, the deeper gold that is here in my in my life, thankful like thankfully, to the people you know that are my blood. So yeah, bro, thank you for for bringing through and the culture piece, bro, what you've what you've landed for me, is that my culture, I track back to Ireland, which is, which is a beautiful, beautiful place in the world, but I'd I'd denied it, and I'd went searching in South America. And it's ironic, because in South America, there's 4000 types of potatoes, and in Ireland, it's known for the potatoes, the potato famine, right? And I'm over South America drinking the medicine, but eating these potatoes. And I just recently spent some time with my grandfather, and I, I sat with him because he's dying, and I felt the guilt of not getting to know him. And I found out about my grandfather, my great grandfather, and my great great grandfather, and I found out about how we got here, and I just got flooded with this Irish spirit. I cannot stop singing Irish folk tunes, man, and I'm singing these songs, and they're coming from a place that other music doesn't come from. And I've seen a lot of South American and North American songs, and, you know, sweet Lodge and all that. But then these Irish songs, man, they come from a deeper place. And I'm just so grateful for my culture right now. And I've never, ever been able to say that. I've never I've always said, I'm grateful for the South American Culture. I'm grateful for the indigenous of Australia, but now I'm like, I'm grateful for my culture and the spirit and the blood that flows through me from those lands. And I will sing their songs, and I will beat the drum. And there's so many things that actually weave together amongst these ancient cultures. A lot of them are pointing us back to the same place,

Unknown: 1:00:55

yes, because they, they all knew, and, you know, knew because they all were in harmony and in connection with the natural world around them, and they had a deep connection to the Supernatural, right? So, I mean, I can guarantee, you, guarantee, like I'm I'm not my wife has, I think, a bit of Irish in her, maybe just a little Irish in her. But these customs and practices and respect for death and all these traditions also existed there. There's no way it did it. There was no way it did not, especially in a civilization or culture that was meant to thrive like we think we're thriving now as a modern society. No, we're not thriving just because we've made some technological advances. And you know, we're think we're making money, and no, the internal world of millions of people says otherwise, suffering. And they're suffering because they've literally been the modern world has pulled them away from the richness and and their connection, not just with nature, but with God, with God, right? So I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I know that you are with me. Thy rod and thy staff comfort me. See, life is gonna life is gonna throw us storms. It's gonna throw storms. It's a part of it. I mean, there's storms in nature, freaking. It's a part of it. They're natural storms, and they're going to be supernatural storms. They're going to be non physical storms, and they're going to be unseen storms, but we're going to go through storms just like nature has storms, and it's a part of cleansing. That's it applies to us as well, but when we're going through those storms and we feel unsettled. We feel unstable. We need something. We need a solid foundation to fall back on, and you mentioned this in the beginning, or something close to it. We have the structure in the household where the man leads the woman, and the women nurture and take care of the children, so the woman when the environment is appropriate and correct, and the man is showing up right, powerfully, honestly, in his wholeness, the woman surrenders, and then the children surrender to The woman. But who does the man surrender to you? Yeah, the question I've been asking a lot of them, and I work with, yep, it's got to be the energy that is bigger than you, bro. So when you talk about you have to go to South America, I think that was a part of it. Peru is one of my favorite countries. Yes, man, people laugh all the time, but I can live in the jungle. I've been there quite a number of times, and I've taken part in the medicine. And I will say I'm grateful for the medicine and that culture, because that culture reminded me of mine. It brought me closer to mine. It had me ask questions about where that technology, or where that architecture, or where that template that is so palpable in the jungles of the Amazon, where was it in my culture? And it started to open up memories for me. I was like, oh, that's why I grew up this way. That's why we did these practices, right? There's so many similarities to things that I grew up in, but because I was so concerned with how I was seen in the world, I denied my culture as well. But now having children, now wanting to learn who I am, I can't get yesterday or two days ago, I spoke to my mom, and I asked her again, hey mom, like, can you tell me about, like, my childhood? Tell me about your childhood, like I'm always asking her, because I know she's on her way out, and just like the ancients did it. They didn't write down information. Like, writing is pretty modern. It's like, Ryan is like, what, 5000 years old, maybe before that, stories, songs, lesson, wisdom. Technology was passed down orally. It was passed down through the DNA. So as I'm listening to these things in stories, something in me is shifting. I am now collecting these because I now I have two heirs in my household who cannot get lost in the world, they need something foundationally to tether them to their true identity. And if I don't have these stories, I'm going to be raising them and how the world thinks has to raise them. No, they were born to me for. A reason they were born to your your child's gonna be born to you for a reason. So I also don't think it's an accident that this, this curiosity for your Irish roots are coming alive. Like, what a gift to be able to pass that. I'm getting chills thinking about it. What a gift to be able to pass down to your child. Like, where you come from, right? And without roots, like, how strong is the tree? No, bro,

Jacob O'Neill: 1:07:27

without roots, how strong is the tree? Let's, uh, man, that feels like the place, yeah. I feel like I could sit here and talk to you for the rest of the day, man, and I would. But I have, I have, I have responsibilities as a man, and no doubt you do, bro. I feel like, once again, I said this to Alan. I said, this feels like a connection that is going to, you know, only, only evolve. And I'd love to have you come back and speak a little more into men's journeys as fathers and stuff. And I'm sure after I'm a father, there'll be a beautiful sort of 2.0 if you're, if you're excited about that, bro. But to wrap this up, where can people find you and what have you got on?

Unknown: 1:08:11

Yeah, and just to be quite honest, honestly, it was social media, and I took a took a six month unplanned break off of social media, so I'm just making my way back. So you can find me on Instagram right now at Samson's underscore strength. That's where a lot of my energy is currently, right now, as I'm rebuilding a lot of my structures and systems. That six month hiatus was again, it was a deeper invitation to see how I'm going to serve into my gifts. Second daughter comes, so now I'm taking it a bit more serious. I was serious before, but like, it's different now, with two children who are looking up to you and looking at you. So yeah, Instagram for now, awesome, man. I'll

Jacob O'Neill: 1:08:54

point people to there in the show notes, yeah, if you want to check out his work, obviously Instagram like, we'll be back for round two when I've got a barb and I've got all the questions, bro, and I've got all the you were right. You were definitely right. But bro, man, thank you so much. From my heart to yours, from all the men here in Australia. We thank you and the the inspirational work that you guys are doing over in the Americas. We're like, Yeah, deeply honored to be flying the flag down south. But bro, thank you so much to all the listeners. Bless up and big love people. We'll see you next week. Peace and awesome. Stop recording.