Ep 87: Becoming a father and the responsibility of masculine leadership

What does it take for a man to balance fatherhood, community leadership, and integrity?

In this episode of Sex, Love & Everything in Between, Jacob O’Neill sits down with Ryan Hubbards, founder of Cool to be Conscious, to explore the challenges of becoming a dad and leading a cultural movement. From the emotional growth required for fatherhood to the importance of grounding in modern men’s work, this episode dives deep into what it means to live with integrity.

They riff off on:

• Jacob introduces Ryan Hubbards and discusses the movement’s cultural significance and integrity.

•Ryan reflects on vulnerability and loneliness in personal development.

•Jacob and Ryan explore challenges in balancing family with leadership.

•Jacob shares the importance of creating harmony at home.

•Jacob and Ryan discuss personal growth through fatherhood.

•The significance of a supportive brotherhood and community leadership.

•The importance of building a relationship with nature for personal development.

•Balancing leadership with maintaining personal integrity.

•Addressing sexual energy and boundaries in community settings.

•Jacob and Ryan discuss the importance of vulnerability and commitment in relationships.

And many, many more...

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#fatherhood #parenthood #menscircle #menscommunity #mensleadership

Transcript

Unknown: 1:07

I think, and I know a lot of the practitioners and facilitators in the space will just give, give, give, give, give, and not give back to themselves, not look after themselves, so they can show up for community or show up for the people that they're in front of. I think it's a very important and necessary aspect of being a practitioner is to make sure that you are really in fit for service. It's a big one. Yo, yo yo lovers. Welcome, welcome. Welcome to sex, love and everything in between, where the O'Neills you're here with Meg and Jacob, and this is the place we have really uncensored conversations about sex, intimacy and relationships. We're super excited you're here. Enjoy this episode. Hey, lovers, yo, yo, yo. Welcome back to another episode of sex, love and everything in between. Meg is currently out getting a massage. She is very, very slow. It's 36 weeks today, and, yeah, bringing in a whole lot of guests to be able to fill up that time when the baby does come, and we're going to be talking a lot about babies, I think, today, and the responsibility that comes with that. As a man in the modern world. I'm here with my bro, Ryan Hubbards. He's the founder of cool to be conscious. And if you've been on a beach in Australia, you've probably seen these guys. They are everywhere. I actually went along bro to one of the first one of the first ones on the gold even the early days on the Gold Coast. And yeah, bro, you really are a leader of a movement. That's what I see. This isn't just a breath work event. This isn't just a modality. It is a culture. It's a cultural movement of of health, wellness and connection. That's what I see anyway, from the outside. And I'll have to be honest, I've been pretty jealous of the numbers that you guys have been getting. It's been beautiful to see over like, I think there was, like, over 1000 at one of the events, right? And it's incredible to see just how well, and I'm sure there's a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes, but just how well oiled the machine is, the the movement machine. And, man, not just the way that you hold yourself in cool to be conscious, but how you do do life in all other areas, man, there's this thing called integrity that's pretty loud at the moment in the men's workspace, especially, a lot of men are being called to a higher level of integrity, and it's normally not got nothing to do with their facilitation in the work that they provide. It's got to do within their personal life. And every time you and I have seen each other, whether it's down the main street of Burley or at Flannery's at Robina or wherever, there's almost like a nod of approval, like, Hey, bro, you on track? Yep. Cool, integrity. Yeah. There's this, almost this unspoken agreement amongst leaders who are really who don't take that fucking shit lightly. And we are very we see our our work as sacred, bro. So I just want to honor you for the way that you hold yourself. And I know that you and your beloved Jess have a baby coming very, very soon. So now more than ever, I believe this cleaning up of our our leaky points, or cleaning up of these old ways before we step into this next level of responsibility is super important, bro. So finally, we're sitting down having this chat. It's been a couple of years in the making. Thanks for being here, brother, thanks for having me. I'm excited to chat with you, obviously, and share with the community that you've created and you've built some some words and some experiences of mine with you, and I'm excited to chat. Epic, man, thank you. I guess I want to sort of start with with your journey a little bit, and sort of fast track that so we can get talking about fatherhood, because I'm just obsessed with it. But um, man, what has it been like for you as an and this is something that I think a lot of men who are wanting to step into the personal development space and facilitate or coach or go full time. What has your experience been like once you had the the grand awakening of like, oh, fuck, tap water and the government's probably not got our best interest at heart, I'm gonna walk to the wild path or to the beat of my own heart. What's it been like for you? Like, the ongoing initiation of, like, really taking full responsibility for your life and the business that you run. What's that been like? Yeah, man, it's been, it's been a total change and trajectory of the way that I view and see and interact with the world. At the beginning, it was, it was scary. I felt really vulnerable, and I felt very alone, and I believe that's why the product of what my experience was has created cool to be conscious and the community that I'm now a part of, and I lead, and do my best to lead. I see many people that are looking to start or transition the way that they live and to seek more of a. A conscious way of being and interacting with themselves and others and their family and their work. And that's essentially what cool to be conscious is really about, is creating stepping stones for that that journey. And when I began there, there wasn't, there wasn't any communities around that i i related to. You know, looking back, I was in New Zealand at the time, and when I looked at those that were somewhat conscious and living a different way, they were so far apart from me in the way that I was already and they were very actually quite intimidating. Those that lived in vans and had long dreads and long hair and were quite disconnected from society, I thought that was the way. And I was like, Man, there must be another way. And surely there is, but the more that I looked, the more that there, there wasn't really so I saw this opportunity to share my own story and share what was working for me, to help me change and liberate myself from the constructs that I had weighing me down in my life. And that's essentially where this all began. But stepping into the responsibility now of being a father and creating a family is is completely different. It's not just creating a movement and following purpose and creating impact on the globe. It's it's now embodying the best man that I can be for not just myself, but my family and and now the baby to be, which is on a whole another level, yeah, man, yeah. I feel you massively. I like what you said about the like, finding the the community, even, um, a lot of people would call it tribe, you know, let's get away from the matrix, and let's escape. And there, there, for me, there was always a an incongruence when I would go and because my main path through through spirituality has been working with plant medicines, and it's been in deep medicine ceremony. And I have such deep love for for that way, and I know that it has been my way. It's not everyone's way, but what I found was a lot of people would then reject the other. And that was really hard for me, because I kind of love, I love society. And what really clicked in a medicine ceremony once was like, it starts, you know, change starts from within. I was like, Well, if we want to change society, it has to start from within, so we can't reject it and, like, run away from it. And that was huge for me, man, so I used to be like, and, and I've, I think I was just like, I'd need space to or van was I've done a trip in a van. It was so small for me. I love trinkets, and I'm a bit of a hoarder. So van life was always really confronting. But, um, yeah, man, I found that, yeah, I found a lot of these people that I was sitting in ceremony with. They were there was a rejection of society and that I have a beautiful I've got a pretty good relationship with all of my family, as does Meg, so it was really hard for me to kind of be like if I had have rejected the matrix, I would have been rejecting all of this others, all these other beautiful people that were living a different way to me, so I resonate deeply with that. And I think those stepping stones make this work so much more available, and that's always been a big part of, you know, the community for me with with when I you know, you guys are doing CWC on the beach, and we do men's weekly out at the rock pools, and we'd have guys come and come and go to both. And what I found was there was a level of accessibility which made it so much more it wasn't a big thing. It was okay, this is normal, course, yeah. And I love, I've loved seeing how, how normal it is now. And that's be, always been my personal, sort of, my personal goal with my men's work is for it to not be men's work anymore. It's just to be like, hey, on the weekend, we're going out to camping, and the camping is actually deepened, is like steeped in the values and the vulnerability that is just normal now, rather than when we go camping and get fucked up, but then we go to the men's retreat to heal. It's like, no, they kind of both start to to weave together, right? I like that. And going back to, you know, this idea of becoming more spiritually aware or connected to yourself, and then creating this disconnect and repression of society, or that's essentially pedestaling yourself above the masses. That's what I see a lot in the space. And I also didn't resonate with that, and it created more of a disconnect. I was like, why are people avoiding to be a part of the world that they've been born into? And like, something that I always share with people is like, I was, I was birthed in New Zealand. I wasn't birthed in the Himalayas. Like I'm not meant to be living in a cave and meditating for my whole life and avoiding the space that I was brought up in. I'm here to weave my dharma and my new understanding of self. And you know, these other ways in which that we can live, and weave that into the masses, weave that into society. And you know, there's many stories out there of like, talking about how. The easy work, or the easy route, is to go and live in the bush and disconnect from society. The hard work is to be amongst the chaos, hold a sense of groundedness and be in all of that energy and then maintain and build a family. It's hard to live in a van. It's easy to live in a van, run away from the world and be on the road. I did that. I lived in a van for two and a half years. And what's challenging now, and what the work is, is to remain with an integrity and to be a dad now, and to build a family and to build a home and to create security and to create safety and then still lead a community the best to my ability. I see that now as the work and my invitation to deepen my own embodiment. Yeah, all of that, man, I resonate deeply with that. I I've found that really, really difficult to reconcile this dream of, like, this big movement and then to actually, like, look after the home. Yeah, actually take care of my own backyard. It's the classic A Yeah, you know, you meet a builder who's got a really, a well, successful building business, and you get to his house and the decks not finished, or the kitchen's falling apart, yeah, nothing's getting done around his home. And he's giving and providing and doing everything for everyone else, yet neglecting his family, his home, himself. And that's such a reflection with I think, and I know a lot of the practitioners and facilitators in the space will just give, give, give, give, give, and not give back to themselves, not look after themselves, so they can show up for community or show up for the people that they're in front of. I think it's a very important and necessary aspect of being a practitioner is to make sure that you are ready and fit for service. It's a big one. That's me, that's been my my pattern. And I think it, I think it is part of the journey to to over give. And I used to judge my dad for that, like my dad is an electrician, and he once sold the air conditioner that was in our lounge room. We came home, and it was gone, classic giver. And within the community, he was known for that, and celebrated for that, and it became his identity. And I aspired to that. I was, I was like, I want to be like that. That seems like a a noble. And you know, his father was at the headmaster of a primary of schools, and so, of course, he was woven into the fabric of community and giving, and was at all of the different functions. And more recently, like, it's been really cool to see my like, you could easily see that my same that my dad's being a prick to all these people now, but he's actually just setting boundaries. Like, I'm just going to hang out with my kids like, this is what's important now, and it's, it's, it's been crazy to feel the level of connection with him, and I can see that that is reminding me like, hey, like, look after the the family unit. And I think that is such a under valued role, and 100% highly undervalued role, and especially with the noise that's going on in society. So, like, we just had the baby shower over the weekend. We had a big barbecue, and I was just hanging out with my sister's kid, my nephew, and I was just holding him, and he, like, I was singing to him, and he fell asleep on me. I was like, This is it, man, nothing else matters 100% prior this realization the day as well, I was like, the most important job and role that we will ever have is to be a parent and to provide this space and environment for a little human being to thrive in and to feel loved and supported and like that's it when we when we start to compare ourselves to other people in the world, and we see all the successes when within their own businesses, and we start to think that we're not doing enough. If you're a parent out there and you're raising a child, that is enough, like, that is enough. That's the job right there, and that is, that's what you've come here to do, specifically, woman, I see Jess now, and I'm sure you're seeing this in Meg, I'm like, this is your role. Like, this is why you come to earth to be a mom. Like, that's a and, like, we're here just to support you in the best way that we can. Yes, you know, yeah. And I saw Jess out at um crumb and valley harvest. I had to go out the rock pools and do a bit of self care because I'd been burning the candle. And I came back and, bro, you could spot her from a mile away, just this golden beacon of light. She's just radiating. And I'm like, It's because you're doing what you're what you came here to do. And it's amazing to like, I got goosebumps when you said that, like, because I see it in and it's so funny. Like, Meg's been resting, bro, and she nestles up in the corner of the couch. And I'm like, bringing tea, and I'm like, cooking, and I'm doing all this stuff that's not traditionally a man's job, but I'm like, serve the feminine, yeah, protect and nurture the womb. And if we get that right at home, what does that? How does that then begin to reverberate? And maybe it won't happen in our lifetime like I'd like to think we could create harmony and unity and all be perfect, but maybe, you know, our children's children, what happens when the family unit is sacred? And and the feminine is held and nurtured, and the womb is the most precious thing, because that is what actually gives us life. Yeah. What happens to the waters, the rivers, the streams? What happens to the forests, the valleys and the mountains like, what? How do we begin to treat the great she like? That's what turns me on. Man, that's like, it's like, okay, so, bro, vacuum the house, bro, like, clean that, clean the backyard, look after it, make sure that this, like that, to me, is a really sacred role. And I really want to, like, celebrate the men who are doing that, and may not be acknowledged for that, because they're not making millions, or they've, they haven't done 10k months, and every month for you know, I want to celebrate the men who who tend to the garden of family, like honoring you bros and honoring the women that that, uh, they're fully embracing their, their their role as woman, and I think it's a journey of finding our way back. So with Jesper, I don't know too much about your story, but what did it what did it activate in you, knowing that, Oh, fuck. This is the woman that I'm going to walk alongside, and this is the woman that I'm going to parent with. Like, what came alive for you in your journey with? Jess, yeah, man, we've been on a we've been on a huge journey since we first connected, and it was the first time it just was actually at stillness. I was at one of their events back then. I was heavily focused on mission. Very I had the had the blinkers on. You know, there was no time, space or energy for any woman. In fact, I was quite celibate without even recognizing really what celibacy was. Back in 2020, and over the space of the next year and a half, she still continued to come down, and there was no leaky sexual energy, there's no flirtatiousness. She was just this bubble of energy. You know, whenever she'd come down, I'd always just see her from a mile away. She'd come and she'd be like, welcome and like, good to see you. And you know, there was this, like just loving excitement from her feminine essence, which was just like this bubble of joy I always remembered her and and it wasn't until I had a ceremony with plant medicine, it was psilocybin, where I had this experience that I was shown that I was now ready to reconnect with the feminine. And the first person that come to mind was Jess. I was like, Jess, it's Jess, it's Jess, and straight after the ceremony, when I landed the plane, I was like, I've got a message. Jess, I've got a message to that girl, you know? And I did. And, yeah, long story short, we we started seeing each other, and I was still moving around a lot through the country, and it was looking back, it would have been really hard for her, you know, I was here, I was there, then I was, all of a sudden, the Gold Coast again, and how you gonna hang out? Yeah, sweet. And then I don't see for three months. I'm traveling again, building community. So that was a lot. She was very uncertain. And like, I don't know what this guy wants, and it was, um, she but she always had this knowing in herself. She's like, this is my man. You know, whatever he's doing now, let him do the thing, but I know that he'll come back to me. And it's beautiful to have these conversations with him now, knowing that she always knew, since finding out that we're having a baby, oh, man, like, I had so much come up, you know, and I'm sure you did too. It was like every little aspect of the little boy within me was like, bro, like, Are you, are you gonna be able to do this, you know? Like, do you have what it takes? Do you have the capacity of the time? Do you have the focus? Do you have the money do you? And I was just like, Frick. So like, initially it was like, all of this overwhelm come through. The essence that I held in my body was and I can do it very well. I can hold a very grounded, relaxed state of being. But my internal world was like a tornado. I was like, wow, there's a lot going on. And then after the tornado kind of blew away, and I got to hold my younger self and be like, bro, I've got you. We're going to be okay. We can do this. You can. There was this new sense of excitement to be a better man, to be more fit, to be more mobile, to be more healthy, so I can show up for her and our child. And ever since then, and I've had that energy come through, it's been nothing but excitement to be a better man, but also on the same end of that breath has been this, like, direct masculine energy of like, I fuck with that. I don't fuck with that. I want that. I don't want that. There's been no, like, people pleasing in me anymore. It's like, No, I don't want this around my family. Yeah, I do want this around my family. No, I don't want to see you. Yes, I do want to see you. I don't have time. Rather than Hey, yeah, I'll make it work, or we'll work something out. It's like, yes or no. It's like being very. Very discerning and clear and direct, you know, which I haven't experienced that side of me for a long time. I feel like I've been quite, I would say feminine in my approach to relationships and friendships. I've been very floaty and make things work and softer, whereas now I'm like, yeah, no, and like, No, I'm not. I'm not putting up with that anymore. Do you know? Man, I'm sure you're experiencing that as well. Maybe this, it's like instinctual, because, like, we now know what we want a part of the family. Yeah, man, thank you for sharing all of that. And shout out to the the bubble of like light that when a woman brings into like that, what I what I heard in that. And very like Megan, I spent nine months getting to know each other at a health food store that I worked at. And like, I'd see her pull up and she'd come marching in with this huge smile, and, like, just beaming. And there's something so powerful about a woman that doesn't need anything from you, no, but just as but just is and like, just like, saturates the place with radiance. And I just love that it was like, it's, of course, it's Jess. So what I've found in with my relationship with me, was like it was actually, it was easy, it was easy, but then it became a practice, like there was a lot of healing that had to go on for me, like the little boy that didn't feel worthy of that kind of love, holy shit, in my vows, like, that's what I said to me. I said, You've taught me to love the parts of me that I didn't believe were worthy of love. I was like, I had no idea that that was allowed to be here. And it sounds as though you know your relationship has been a powerful catalyst for that, and then the pregnancy as well for me, man, I it brought up every part of me that felt unworthy. It's like you don't have a stable business. You still drive an old car. You are not that healthy right now. You've, you know you're not, you know you haven't got any of your practices in place. You constantly running around doing and it was just like, it was like a barrage of just like, almost like, self hatred. We came through really dominant and I had to go through some deep, kind of healing processes at the start of the year to because I didn't think I was going to make it, man, I was really, I was really concerned for my own well being. But to come out of that and to arrive into this place of like, oh, I had a moment. Actually. This was really funny. I had a moment where I was like, a baby that is born doesn't even know what money is, so why would I believe that this baby would not love me if I didn't have a million dollars in the bank? I'm like, what kind of absurdity is that? And that tempered this idea of, I need to have everything figured out. To, Hey, bro, get your sorted, but don't believe that you have to be finished by the time the baby gets here. Yeah, I love that. I absolutely love that. And brought up a conversation I had with Jess as well, because I said to Jess, when, when she's told me that we're having a baby, she's pregnant. I'm like, oh, man, like, this wasn't in my plan. You know, the plan was to have the property and to have be off grid and have financial stability, and to have this all set up, and she's like, Yeah, babe, that'd be great. But how beautiful is it going to be for our child to see you go through the journey of creating, building the foundations for our life in the future, rather than just having it on a platter. Your child gets to see you go through work, grind, build, bust, blood, sweat and tears, building the foundations. How much better is that? I was like, that hurt me. That landed I was like, No, I I agree. I agree. The baby, you know, doesn't know what struggle is, doesn't know what financial insecurity means the baby has us and is held and is loved and is nurtured. That's all it wants. Doesn't matter where. It doesn't matter what, what the room looks like. You know, as long as it's got you and your heart, it's happy, yeah, full stop. Totally man. I one of the things that Megan, I really pride ourselves in our home is like it, if you like our house feels good to be in. That's that. It doesn't matter whether we've got the best couch, the best stuff. It's like, if like we want to, like energetically, provide a space where this baby can feel safe and loved, and then everything else on top of that. Yeah, the property that the off grid property with natural spring and the sweat lodge and the all cows and nice, nice to have. But, um, I love what you said is like, I for me, like, boy, how powerful will it be for, you know, my child and your child to witness each of us journeying towards, you know, something greater, and actually like holding the vision and and learning how to manage and harmonize what it's what it means to be a family man, and what it means to be a man on mission like that, to witness and to be able to absorb and see a man go through that like, what a gift. And like That's. Going to be more. You give them a million dollars when they turn 18, like that's nothing without the the, I guess, the witnessed embodiment of a man who knows how to open and and when failure comes. He knows how to be with his failure, that knows how to bring home and and experience and celebrate himself with when success comes, and also just knows how to stop and be with these kids and be like, Hey, let's read the book. Hey, yeah, let's go down to the beach. Hey, the sun is shining. Why would I works off today? Like, where, where am I not actually living in that natural, that natural state? So, man, I know it's going to be a huge challenge for me, and I'm excited for it. I think I just want to revisit that staunchness of like this or that. I've had that this year, and I've had to, like, I'm not interested in drama, and I'm not interested in giving you the context why I'm a no like people. I've, I've had a real bad habit of that from doing a lot of plant medicine. I would then feel like I had to tell people, like, about my journeys and give them all the gold. And that was a real and I kept on like, almost like dishonoring my own initiations and then dishonoring another person's like rite of passage by giving them all of the all of the details, without them actually having the embodiment. And that kind of became a bit of a pattern for me in my personal development journey and my giving journey, was like, here, let me show you what's behind the veil. Now I'm like, no, yes, no, and they're like, Yeah, but can you tell me why? I'm like, No, I love you, but go. And I literally did that with a gathering a member. I reset the whole structure at the start of the year, I was like, Hey, listen, I've denied a lot of the guys that are in leadership the actual rite of passage. And I said, bros, that's on me. I said, Thank you for everything that you've done. Like, I'm so grateful that you've, like, fed the vision, put wood on the fire, like, breathed life into this, this thing that I'm really passionate about. But like, what I've experienced is that the leadership role you were given was actually premature, and that's on me, because I was in a rush. So what we've done is we've restructured everything, provided an appropriate facilitation training for you to step into, and, you know, given it to you at cost price. Because, you know, it's all, all about the love, but you know, this is, this is us honoring in and it's been amazing to have, like, no, none of those guys step into that facilitator training. And some of those guys, you know, I'm still, we've had beautiful they're like, Hey bro, it's just not for me. And I don't really want to, you know, come to the gathering of men this year. I'm like, awesome. But other guys have felt that almost like that rejection piece. And one of the things I said is okay, like, if you don't want to do our facilitator training, that's all well and good. But like, go and do something. Go and learn from someone. Otherwise, you'll continually seek out these support roles that give you access to leadership that aren't really appropriate, I said. And that's on me. And yeah, man, what's actually come from that is that I've actually had to sex take stock. I've looked around and, like, who are the guys that I actually would trust if I wasn't there? And I remember messaging you, you're like, oh, bro, baby's gonna be here. I'm like, Ah, my baby's gonna be here as well, bro. So like, what I've done is, like, the structure that's here now is, like, if I'm not there, it doesn't actually matter, because the standard, it's actually a lot of these guys are I look up to, so I know the standard that I see as a minimum level of quality will be upheld. And then we've got the facilitator training. We've got all these great support, these guys coming in to, like, learn from these amazing facilitator. So for me, man, I think the biggest challenge was actually, like, turning on that, like, almost, like, that fierce, penetrative, masculine, like, this is how it is. And if you don't want to be a part of it, good, if you do want to be a part of it, good, happy days. Happy Days, yeah, and it's like the civility in you to go, not everyone's going to be happy with the decisions I make, and that's okay, and that's for me, that was a huge stepping stone into my own security within myself, recognizing that I can't make everybody happy, especially with what we do with the community events. Yes, man, you know, and that's recognition that a man needs to realize that I can't make everyone happy. And if I was to be the chameleon and try and fit into everyone's boxes. People lose respect, furthermore, towards me, rather than hearing what I believe, what he believes in as an example, and he's rigid and solid in his belief. Yes, it triggers me and is I'm like, fuck you, but I still respect you more because I seek Your backbone. I see your spine, you know. And that's necessary, and means work full stop. You've got guys coming in here that are like, Yeah, I'll do this. And then, like, No, I won't do the course. Well, you know where you stand? Yeah. You know where they stand, yeah. You know so well done doing that. That's huge, yeah, man. And that's then, like, filtered, and sounds like you've had that way, like, Oh, cool. I don't actually, that's, that's. Investing my time and energy and resource into this thing is it's a no, because this is so important now, and this is going to require a new level of like, investment. And I see that. I see that in my sister and my brother and Laura. See them. They're like, now fuck everything else, man, this baby, like, Let's go for a walk. Yeah, let's go get you know, let's, let's. And I think that I had this happen. Another bro that came over, had him over for dinner, and we're just talking about life, and I started setting the table, and I was putting the plates down on the table, and I got hit with this wave of just like, like, deep presence. And I was like, I'm doing exactly what I want to do, this is it? And I realized that the most powerful altar is the dinner table. Like, it's, it's the family altar, yeah? And like, I'm like, oh, having all, like the I was like, everything was falling in on me at once. I was like, having all of these, like, memories of all of the amazing moments that happened at the dinner table, and when would friends would come to our house and have dinner with us, and it was such a mainstay. And for me, I've been really just like the dinner table is like the altar that a family is really like, makes a family sacred because it gives everyone a space to sit and be equal. It gives everyone an important role in life. Because who, who goes and gets the cutlery? Kids, can you grab the cutlery? Okay, who's getting the place mats? All right? Go and wash your hands. Like, there's a process. There's a ritual that, like, is like, okay, and the family is now tethered to each other, and we sit down and we share food and we speak. And I think that that, um, that I had that moment. It was just a bro, Ryan worsby White, he's another guy that's coming to the gathering of men to facilitate. I was like, bro, I'm just having a moment right now. And I felt my eyes well up. I was like, this, is this? Is this? Is it? This is what's important to me. And I realized, oh, like barbecuing with family is important to me. These rituals, which I didn't see as rituals from my childhood are like Mainstays. And I was like, Ah, okay, I don't need to save the world. I just need a barbecue more absolutely, I love that bringing bringing like intimacy to those moments that we see as mundaneness, or, you know what, like things that we don't see beauty in ah, and is the beauty within family environments, creating that ritualistic intimacy with having dinner together. Having a meal is what makes life special. And then I feel women are really good at doing this, you know, like, what I appreciate the most out of my partner, which I'm sure you're going to resonate with, is she makes things feel really special, rather than just mundane, boring. That because we as men just we wanted to sit on the couch and chill out, whereas Jess would like, light the candles, put an incense on. I'm like, oh, man, this feels different now, you know. And that's like, the beautiful thing about a woman, how she can make it feel like a really family melt environment. Bro, I would like this. Like, we're in our lounge room right now, and it's, it's, it's nice in here, hey. Like, we've, we've got the bookshelf with all of our books, we've got a nice altar, and then we've got plants, and then we've got, like, the the Moroccan rug and the Moroccan sort of footstool. And, dude, I would have none of that shit, course. Dude, I would have none of that. Like, it's only be like, and I hate her, and I'm frustrated. And he's like, can we move this plant over? I'm like, why are the plants even inside? I'm like, why do we have to have like, and I look, and I'm like, I and what I then, when I go and sit on the couch and I look around, I'm like, this is, this is a reflection of the this is beautiful. This is beauty. And one of the things that I learned through, you know, one of the I always say, like my plant medicine, but like, what I learned from, like the the lineage that I work with, is it's called the beauty way. And it's not just about, you know, doing psychedelics or, you know, having these huge, big realizations or journeys, or visual like, visual experiences. It's about, you know, how do you actually prepare the space, and how do you, how do you actually stack the logs on the fire? Is it beautiful? And some of the fires that I've seen the elders from Mexico, when we sit vision quest make, it's like, that's art. And for me, what I've found having Meg in my life is like our life becomes this beautiful artwork and everything's about making things beautiful. So we get to witness and almost like have that, that reflection when things are beautiful, all of a sudden, life feels great when things are stale and kind of rigid and practical and lack any kind of uniqueness, mundane. Does we lose the well, I lose the magic in the mundane. That's the practice, right there, making the mundane magic, yeah, and I take that on for a quote, yeah, yeah. Man, it's important. And like, the way that I view the world now, and I view things is like treating everything and everyone as if it was myself. Mm. Know, like if I was that plant, how would I like to be situated? How would I like to be set up? If I was that bookshelf, how would I like to be set and just start to see the world as if it was you, things just start to change, and you start to interact with things a lot differently. And this can be with anything, you know and like, it can, it can sound really strange and weird, but like, even if I, like, walk past a piece of rubbish, I was, like, if I was that piece of rubbish, where would I Where would I want to go? Like, where's my home? Yeah, it's in the bin, so it can be circled and recycled and whatnot. You know, it's like, interacting with things in a different way that creates connection between you and it as necessary. And it's the same with family environment, absolutely home, making home feel like, feel like you, you know, and then the energy flows, right there? Isn't the block, the blockages, like the piece of rubbish. It's like I'm actually relating with the all. I'm actually in right relationship. I that that doesn't want to be there. It wants to be there. I have the capacity to boom, boom. And then yeah, if a flows, yeah, 100% and that's that's reconnecting with the great she. I feel is that responsibility and reconnection and reclamation of the Divine Feminine essence within all of us that wants to care and nurture and love the world, love the planet, love what we see. Clean up, help assist, support one another first and foremostly, and ourself first and foremostly. And then let that come through, and then impact the world in its own way. And it just happens as a byproduct. You start looking after yourself and taking care of you. Then all of a sudden, you want to help support other people. You want to help clean up the beach. You want to help clean up whatever just happens as a byproduct, rather than like, I need to do this to be a good person and to be seen as a good person. I need to go join the beach cleanup. Like, if you actually start taking care of you, you just naturally do that. And it doesn't matter if anyone says you're doing it, you just do it. Just doing it because it's you, and that what you just shared, and that can be kind of the lonely part of the journey, right? You spoke about that, like, feeling that loneliness, I think it'd be cool to, like, sort of track back to that as, like, there is a period in that journey, and I always think in sort of the hero's journey model, but there is a lonely part of that where you have to actually be there's a there's a level of selfishness in that which can be demonized by society or by the sometimes by the personal development world I've experienced like actually looking after yourself, rather than just like blasting open your capacity and then going and doing everything that you can. It's almost like taking care of your your nervous system, and I call it like the fortification of your nervous system. It's like, how are you actually tending to yourself and being with the part of you that may feel selfish or the other side was, oh, this is really lonely. And that, for me, was a massive part of my journey. Like I feel so fucking alone, and then I end up with all these women around me that were into spirituality, and I kind of felt alone. But I wasn't alone, because I was around all the Meg's crew, and it was like, Oh, this is I just have to keep trusting and try. And faith became a big part of my journey. But I was like, All right, I have no idea what the fuck I'm doing. And entrepreneurship didn't come to me naturally. I'm very I was very much coded to be a nine to FiVER, a hard worker, a good team player. So like, entrepreneurship was like a it was like getting slapped in the face every morning I woke up. Still get slapped in the face every day I wake up, you know, and I feel like we had similar paths there. I didn't grow up and I didn't study business. I didn't study how to be a leader. I grew up on a farm driving tractors and chasing sheep North Canterbury, New Zealand. I hardly, I hardly communicated and spoke to anybody most days, you know, I sit on a tractor for 12 to 16 hours in the summer to be doing what I'm doing now. If I was to look at myself in the past, I'd be like, there's no way, there's absolutely no, I put me in front of a group of 100 people. Not a chance. I'd need 10 beers down my throat to do that. And we had, yeah, we had 3100 people on Bondi Beach this year, February. Yeah, it blew my mind. That was loose. It was loose. And like, to be honest, it was the still with the same energy that I showed up with. If it was 10 to 15 people, it was just like, Man, this is just it was something else to see the the people that were seeking community, that was seeking to be to change, to make change, that was seeking the the next step in their own evolution, needing that, needing that permission slip to to change the way that they are, yeah. Man, I really took, what I take from the movement of like the Ryan that's doing 16 hours on a tractor to standing in front of 3100 people that all are like there, to experience the the value that is being developed by the cdbc community as. Like a lot of people can look at that and be like, Oh yeah, cool. Like, he Yeah, cool. Of course, he just got lucky. Or yeah, he this, or that. It's like, what I really want to honor is, like, every fucking weekend there was, it'll be conscious fucking gatherings happening across Australia and New Zealand. Like every week there is such a, there is such a realness to the consistency of showing up and delivering and doing it, whether there's 110, 20 or 1000 people there, and that 3100, was the product of the 10s, the twos, the fuse. Yeah, right, but there was you and like, if you play a drum beat, eventually people will start to come and they'll start like, tapping their feet. And for me, that was a, that was a I looked at. I was like, man, like, that's devotion. And what I took me, I was like, That's devotion to community, to the movement, to the vision and and devotion to like, every single step of like, okay, there's another way. All right, entrepreneurship, all right. I have no idea what I'm fucking doing, but I'm gonna follow the feeling, and I'm gonna trust in the the forces that are moving me that I don't even know what to call them, absolutely. And, man, that, yeah, it feels as though that, that that, then, like, that outward, kind of greater vision, and sort of comes back to, like, okay, the now, how do I do this, on the on a deep, deep level, with family now, whilst not losing the or my tether to the the greater movement, and that's a whole nother level of leadership that I think, like, I think it outgrows the word entrepreneur, to be honest. And I think what I take from you is like, there is like a visionary. And I say, I don't use that word lightly, like there's a visionary aspect to it that you need. Without being grounded, the visionary becomes kind of the fantasy world. And this is where I see a lot of guys get lost in their own fantasy or get drawn in, and the leakiness starts to occur, especially when you've got women in the space, and that can be a real like, was was that a challenge for you ever, like, the vision turning into fantasy, and then you kind of living out some of these darker desires? Did that? Did you have to wrestle with that? Or was that presented to you and you had to, like, be a real hard No. Or did you have mentors or people in place that kind of said, Hey, Ryan, be careful. Or Ryan, pull you like hey, you're burning a little too brightly, bro, or you're getting a little bit too extravagant or performative. What was that like for you? Yeah, that's a really, really interesting question. I I was always able to hold myself humble. I was always able to stay really humble in the growth and the expansion. And to be honest, when, especially at the beginning of chord reconscious, it went really big, really fast, and I was so devoted and integral with the greater vision of creating a movement across Australia that was able to impact hundreds of 1000s of people. And I don't know what happened, man, I reckon for a year I got caught up in this, just like state of being where there was no space and time for ego to really be online much at all. Was it because it was, it was growing at such a rate you couldn't. It was almost as if, like, if I, if I, yeah, yes, I can't look away, because it needs all of me. Needs all and it was like that year was like consistency every single weekend, weekend, in and out, in and out, we had to be there. And I had good people around me. I had good friends around me that had lots of honest truths to share about what they've experienced in previous or heard of in previous stories, etc, that really gave me the ability to catch myself before things would manifest like a big rule, and one that Ru and I agreed on right at the beginning of CWC was to be there to be no sexual intimacy with anyone a part of the community or full stop. And that was what we agreed on, you know. And I remember sharing with Rue one moment. I was like, bro, I've because I was very I didn't know what celibacy was back then, and I was also not ejaculating. And I got to this point where there was this, there was just no sexual energy being leaked at all, like my mind was. So it was probably the purest it's ever been. 2021 2022 and there was, there was no thought, there was no wandering eye, there was nothing of that. I just saw everyone coming down as another person, looking to evolve, looking to expand themselves, looking to grow. And what I see now in the space, and I see it everywhere, is this. Pedestaling of the person that's leading the event in this, like this, like, focus on the way that they look, the way that they sound, up, even putting on, like, these strange accents when they're facilitating, like, talking in these different tones, and like, wow. Like, that's, that's the growth of the spiritual ego that's now creating this persona mask to get attention for ulterior motives, essentially, and it's really live right now. I'm sure you're seeing as well. And I didn't get, I didn't have that, unfortunately, yeah, there was some stuff that went down within the community that had those actions play out, you know, and I did my best to diffuse and assist and support that, but call to be conscious as a whole has been always very integral with our intentions for bringing people together, you know, like I even called some of the men out at my community because I had some feedback from a few of the girls that were coming down, saying, we feel as though that these guys want to date us. And I said to the group of men, I said, Men, if you are here to pick up, know that these are not the right woman that you want to be picking up, because they can see through all of your bullshit. And they all just went, Oh, okay, okay, he and they all see us because there's like this pretentiousness of I'm now spiritual, I'm now awake, I'm now becoming aware. I'm now doing good things for the wrong intentions, just to be seen as doing the right things, not from a pure heart or a pure body. And it's It saddens me to see, especially in the facilitation space. It's hard to watch, but it's like, what am I going to do? I can't jump up and down and like, scream at the mic and be like, you guys all need to check in with yourselves and make sure your intentions are pure. And where are you? Where are you being of service from? And why are you? Why are you facilitating this really good looking girl the most in the group? Why do you keep going back to her and like, Well, why do you go to this really handsome guy on the floor all the time? You know, like, I talk about this during my practitioner training. I call it forward, and it's necessary. And I think many people are discussing this stuff, because it's happening unconsciously. This is the shadow aspect of self. It's like seeking to be pleasured, seeking to get close to that sense of validation. Yep, you know. And if it's not brought to our awareness, we may not know, may not we may not even be aware of what we're doing. That's why we need brotherhood. That's only people in the space that are calling you forward on your shirt, challenging you like it's necessary, especially in the roles that we're both in, and there's not enough of that going down, yeah, man, and it's easy to just kick people to the curb. I found it's like, oh, cool, too fucking hard. You're a fucking leaky fuck off. Like, I just don't have time to fucking deal with you. But what's harder is having the conversation. That's what I found, man, like, Hey, bro, gotta have a chat. And then I'm like, fuck this, man, I got other shit to do. I've got other shit that's important. I'm now having to deal with this and, like, and this is a leadership moment. Jacob and I've had so many of those conversations, bro and I don't know, you know, I've, I've got a pretty dark sexual beast in me. I know that I, I have, like, that dark, masculine and I've always had my relationship bro like Meg was. I've been with Meg like over 10 years now, nearly 10 years, sorry and known her for over 10 and I always had a relationship. I was always in relationship. So I don't know what I would have been like, bro, if I hadn't been in relationship and I was in the world of personal development, I can't say that I wouldn't have been that manipulative, leaky dude probably could have been. I'll never know, but I do know that I never really I was never super, super aggressive in the dating world anyway. I was always more concerned about the song I was playing and whether I wanted to dance. I was always consumed by the moment. So I feel that that was always an I always felt that I developed a healthy relationship with with life, until I didn't. So for me, like alcohol was big, porn was a big part of my early 20s. And even now, like with Meg being pregnant and we had, we went through a whole process this last couple of months around I didn't I wasn't really feeling sexual. I was so focused on the mission, but I'd also subconsciously only seen her as, like this woman that's becoming a mother. So she was no longer the the horny, vibrant, like, like sexy woman that she felt she was and she is, but she was feeling. I wasn't able to honor that in her so, yeah, man, I think this is like an important conversation to be having with men, and it's not a you're wrong for wanting to be to have a hot woman in your life, or a sexy or an alive or an awakened woman like that's a that's a beautiful thing to desire, and how are you going about that? Absolutely, and it's the appropriation of setting and intention. Where are you? Are you being of service right now, or are you looking to pick up a check right now? Yes, that's the separate. That's the difference. There's, there's nothing wrong with looking for a partner and looking to date somebody in the conscious community at all. Not saying that. I'm saying that when people are coming down to explore themselves, to show vulnerability, to open themselves up, that is when they are most vulnerable and susceptible to leaky sexual energy and can be manipulated and controlled. And that's what I've seen firsthand. That's the difference. Yeah, you know, when you're of service, you're you've got a responsibility to uphold and withhold integrity and intentions to be pure for the greater good of the people that are you're in front of. It's not about you. You're not there for you, mate, bro, you're not there for you, bro, you're there for them. And then same to the woman. I'm going to call some woman out too. There's a lot of women sexualizing and creating facility, putting, like, putting their facilitation head on, and making it this sexual experience, and unknowingly, or maybe they do know, manipulating the men in the space. I've seen it and heard it as well many times. Yeah, it's crazy, man Meg, and I talk about this a lot around, like, the maturing of our work, yeah. And the more mature we become, the less we need to jump up and down. About it 100% the less we need to be like, this is this, is this or oh, this, and we don't need to. And manipulation is neither good or bad, you know, there's chiropractic. I need to manipulate this way, you know. But what I'm saying is, like, when we do that with our ulterior motive, or a distorted, sort of a distorted form of service, which is, like, Yeah, I'm serving you, but like, really, I'm just wanting to feel fill a need, of course, what i i, and it's funny, you say that, you know, one of the biggest practices I give to guys who struggle with this. I say, Dude, you're going on a feminine cleanse. And I tell them what that is, and they're like, oh. And then, after a week, they're like, bro, they're like, drinking from the great she they're like, building a relationship with mother nature, which is, which, for me, is unconditional love. So they're just being fed. Yeah, I have no doubt that you in that in your van. I'm pretty sure you would have been a lot of natural places that were feeding you. So there wouldn't have been a need for the or that leakiness of like grabbing yeah at the skirt, no. So the first thing I do with man is like, Hey bro, build a relationship with the great sheep. Build a relationship with nature and go and do it. And when I say that relationship with nature is there's a there's a fine line between. I often use surfing as an example. Surfing, you're going to the surf and you're rushing around looking for the best waves. You're looking at all the beaches. That's not building a relationship. That's you looking to take. So when you surf, are you building a relationship with one beach break, and are you going there, and even when the waves are bad, are you paddling out and getting to know her? Like, this is the the fine tuning and the nuances, like, it's not about going just to the best waterfall or to the best place. It's like going to where you're called and being in right relationship. One of them, I don't know if you've listened to any of the Emerald podcast with Joshua Sri, I've heard of Joshua Tree. He's a phenomenal I got to sit with him, and he spoke about, like, go to where your heart wants to sing to her. And I was like, oh. And then I was like, thinking of the Cascades, for me, that's like, the ocean doesn't exist. The Cascades, to me is like, that's the spot. And it was so funny, like, over the last three years of building a relationship with her at this sacred place, like songs started to come through, prayer started to like, come through me and like, I was all of a sudden giving all of this to her just because, and it was because I'd been going consistently, consistently, consistently. And that's kind of what I encourage men to do is like, rather than going looking to get your hit, where are you building a deeper relationship with the thing that will continually feed you no matter what? Yeah, I love that man. Well, that's brought up for me is like understanding why you're seeking the offload, more getting off or the escape? What are you running from? What are you avoiding from? When I look at running clubs as a great example of most people just looking to date, hook up with other people and run away from their shit, I made a funny joke at stillness the other day about it. I was like, look, it's really great to see that these communities are now starting to pop up everywhere, and these run clubs are going really well. And I was like, but I. Majority of these people are just avoiding and running away when you can come down to stillness. Be with yourself. Be with your mind. Be with your heart. Start your day there. Then go for running club. Then we're approaching this from a really positive framework. We're not running away and avoiding and it's the same thing with men who are masturbating and looking to have a one night stand, like you're just looking for someone and something to offload your stress from. Yeah, you know. And I know that because I used to be like that. My my early years of life were revolved around that I didn't know how to deal with the trauma and stress that was stuck in my body as an old as a young teenager. I didn't know how to deal with that. I found alcohol and porno and ejaculating, it was, like, my routine thing. They're like the trifecta for an 18 year old man, when you all of a sudden, you drink this alcohol and I can I'm now, got courage now I'm relaxed, yeah, I'm grooving. And then, oh, there's this, like infinite, like library of just all the different types of women doing all these fucked up, crazy things that I've would love to do, but I'm scared to do. So I'm just, like, watch that, and then I can touch myself and, like, it's the try. It's a absolute, like, it's got, it's a gold mine for an 18 year old that doesn't know what responsibility is. You get the release. Absolutely, you get the release. You feel good. You actually go into a deep, decompressive, parasympathetic state. Yeah, you feel meditative. You're relaxed. And then what happens? You keep avoiding what is really creating that, and then it builds back up again. You need to release it like I remember specifically talking to the bros when I was younger, going, Oh, time to let some stress off in front of them at the flat, you know, go for a wank and, like, let some stress off, and then you come back into the room and you're a lot more relaxed and calm, yeah, but what's going on there? It's like, we're putting plasters on the core issue and the core wound of something that's pressing on the body. So it's the same thing when I, when I look at men that are now our age. I'm like, if you're still masturbating and seeking pleasure in the form of one night stands, you're clearly distracting and running away from something internally that is a void or that needs to be addressed and processed. Yeah, yeah, man, um, it's so, it's so, it's so beautiful to have almost this conversation. It feels super confirming for me, because I'm, I'm a little righteous when it comes to, like, the the family unit these days, and the monogamy. Like, I'm like, Dude, if you, if you've really, like, be with one woman and be with her and she's and she's and I say this is like, she's not the one, she's the one. You choose. Big difference. Big difference. Big difference. Because if you're like, she's the one, then she has to, like, she's then giving you something you can't give yourself. First, she's the one I choose. It's coming from a place of, I'm responsibility, and then that, that's the key said, Oh, I choose, therefore I must be prepare myself to provide, protect and be present with so that is a huge and, like, it's it's not easy at times when the woman you like, the woman I love, Meg, like, nine years in, is pissing me off because she's not doing something that I want her to do, that I haven't told her to do, that she should just know by now. And I'm like, We're here again, and she has that all the time with me. But there's something beautiful about devotion. There's something beautiful about like, what's like, what's this moment asking of me, and Meg and I have this little saying, like, Can I have another go at that? Because, like, we get stressed. We're both running businesses. The baby's coming. Life happens. Lots of we both got big families that always want to, you know, there was always something on. We're learning. We're learning to, to create these structures, like, Hey, can I have another go at that? Because we're not perfect. There's times where a wank would fucking probably make me a lot more present, of course, but what we found is like, Can I have another go at that? And we have a rule, which is, like, if you're aware of it, you bring it to the space. Because, like, sometimes one of us is caught up in our story. Like, if whoever's whoever's aware of it first, has the has the responsibility and the permission to bring it beautiful. And sometimes that's her, sometimes that's me, and that's how I believe like a relationship, a like, a deep relationship with one other person can, like, can really, like, continually feed you absolutely and in many ways than other you know, like that's that I truly believe is for me. I'm talking on behalf of myself. Being with Jess has been my biggest mirror and reflection to heal further into myself. And I love what you mentioned there of having a partner and choosing her, choosing her to be your woman, not you're my soulmate, and like you're the one I'm choosing for you to be my woman. If you want to be my woman, I'll be your man. Like it's a choose. It's a choice you make it every single day. And I know maybe we can talk into this topic, because it'll probably trigger a lot of people about like. Like polyamory and open relating and things like this. And I once thought that they were great ideas. That was because I was avoiding to choose yes and be devoted fully. You know, that was the that was the part of me, this young version of me, probably 16 years old, that's like, Hey, bro, I don't think I'm ready to go up with the toys in the playground. Yep, you know, and like being a man is like, No, I fucking choose. I choose to devote myself to this woman. I choose to shop every day to be a better man, to try and be a better man, and to work with you and to heal with you, and to share this with you, this experience with you, to go through the shit that's gonna arise, because it will. When you don't get your toys, you don't get what you want. Stuff's gonna pop up. But underneath all of that is like this want and desire to be loved. And if your woman is loving you to her fullest capacity, and you're unable to receive that, that is your heart, that is your shit, that you've got to open, you know? And it took me two years to get to a point where I realized that I still didn't have my heart open to juice fully. And that was confronting. I was like, Whoa. That is layers to this, yeah, man. Like, it makes me like, it's like, yeah, it's one thing to choose a woman, but if you choose her, you're choosing to let her in. And that is that, like, I've, I've been drive reaching of like, I have to let her into this part of me. I've had to go and, like, literally vomit, and nearly I've had a moment where, like, I had to go and, like, let me in on something that I was so ashamed of, and I nearly shit myself. Yeah, I literally had to go and to the toilet because I had diarrhea. That's the emotional stagnation of the shame, of of the embarrassment, yeah, coming out. And then for her to sit there and go, babe, I still love you. That's when it hurts. So what I thought I'd take this to the grave, I thought I could never tell you this thing, and that's that's the deepening of relationship, and that's the real shit, right there. Yeah, man. And my argument, and my staunch position on this is, like, you don't get that in polyamory, because you don't have the depth available. It's one thing to it's great to love a lot of people equally. I love you, and that doesn't mean that I can't love you and have an experience with you. It's like, yeah, it's the mixed bag of always, it's a Party Pack, good, have you know, but if you eat part, yeah, if that's how you choose to live your life, I don't believe that depth or deep roots will grow, and you'll try, the tree will not, you know, I always think back to a tree like deep roots hold of, you know, the thickest trunk, and the thickest trunk grows the closest to the stars and the sky and creates the greatest, you know, shade cover and the greatest fruit and the greatest fruit and those you know, I often think you know what you know, what do I want to be? Do I want to be like a weed, or do I want to be a beautiful, Big Red Sea? And I envision that that's sort of one of my meditations. Is becoming the beautiful tree that can, like, grow deep roots and withstand the storms, but also people want to come and sit under and climb and the children can access me. And I think that's a really powerful thing, and that's why I, you know, there's so many fors and against, but like, that's why I believe in the family unit. And one of the things Duncan Trussell says is, like, you can have he's like, I've had all the experiences. I've had the psychedelics. And he's like, there's nothing like a Sunday morning breakfast with my family listening to songs that my mother loved, and my children like, like helping me make pancakes. It's like, oh, man, like that makes me I'm like, I cannot wait. And I did a, I did a death ritual workshop with a beautiful man named pravas, who's kind of a grief Walker, this old man. He's a phenomenal he's like an Osho student of Osho. He's just a real old Santa Claus wizard man. I love him. And he did this death ritual workshop, and he got us to draw down what meant most to us. Just draw something and just draw with meaning, like, what? What's something you'd want to like, really remember and carry with you through life. And I drew this vision of a river. He said, What do you want to prioritize? Or what does it? Just draw it as a drawing. And I drew this river, and I drew these trees, and I drew a fire, and I drew all the Swags, and I drew, like, a camp kitchen, and I was like, and I had, I started crying, and I'm like, fuck. I am drawing the thing that I loved as a child. And I was like, fuck. And I was like, all I need to do is do that. Like, that's all I need to do is create that, and I'll be happy. And when I'm happy, everything seems to fucking work. And what, who do I love to do that with? I was like family. I remember it bringing family together. And even though we had to bring a caravan for my mum because she hated staying in the camp, she didn't want to camp, we had the caravan for that. We made it work. And it was this, it was this massive, massive ritual every year that we would go on camp for five days at this place, and I was like, Oh man, that's I want connection to myself, connection to nature, and connection to the ones I love. And to do that, I need to prioritize depth in those three areas. And man, I am. I just think, you know the polyamory and that, that whole. So it becomes very much around indulgence and pleasure and following your your desires, which I get. But it has every, every man that I've coached who's been in that world, he's found his way back to this path. And you will, and you will. It's by biologically every and I, Meg, sorry. Meg, love you. But like every woman, I believe, when she experienced true safety and containment and like healthy, the healthy depth of the masculine, like, all of a sudden she's gooey, all of a sudden she's smiling, all of a sudden she's radiating. And then cakes are being baked, bread's being baked, and next thing you know, she wants children. I'm like, I'm not, I'm not saying I'm right, but what I'm saying is like, that happens, course, as a byproduct, as a byproduct of being in a safe relation, being in a safe relationship, with a man who has who is connected to the truth of himself and the truth of nature. It's, it can't not be. I love that. So no, I know. I totally agree. And everything that you just said, and I've seen it in jest, too. Yeah, you know, she when we first started seeing each other, this was back in 2022 and I went through a phase of like I was, I was so scared. I was so scared to commit to her fully and devote myself to her as as my woman, you know, and and I tried to run away. I was like, No, I can't do it. And I tried to break up with her, and I tried to break up with her. And then about three hours down this I went on a road trip straight afterwards. And we're on, we're on the road at the time, you know. And she just come down and see me in Melbourne. And I broke up with her at the, basically the port. And soon as she got the flight, and anyway, we got on the road, and I started listening to this podcast, and it was actually Paul check talking about his relationship, and he's got two wives and and I was like, oh, man, something in that. I was like, maybe, maybe I want two woman, yeah, maybe I want two women. Maybe I need to have this other experience with a woman. And I rang Jess up like that day, like this day after, and I was like, I think it's I think I want to be polyamorous. And she's like, down the other end of the line. She's like, Yeah, okay, yeah, whatever. And she knew in her core that that wasn't actually, truly what I wanted, but she wanted to play it out, you know. So we agreed. She's like, Okay, I'll be we'll be polyamorous. Yes, we did. Like, four months passed by and because she was, like, waiting for this thing to happen, you know? And she kept saying, Well, have you found someone yet? And I was like, No, I'm not looking for somebody. I'm not out. Somebody. I'm not out there seeking another woman and and like but, but what it was at its core was me running away from really choosing Jess. No experience happened. I didn't connect with another chick. I didn't even leak any sexual energy with another woman into a conversation, really, with another woman that could have turned into this experience or dynamic, but that was what it was. At its core. I was like, I was so scared to be like, No, babe, I choose you and I'm here. And like, I'm here, you know? And now I can see in my own reflections that many men out there that are in a polyamorous relationships, especially in this conscious community, I see as such a bypass of really devoting themselves to a woman and going into the real work, yeah, oh, I listened to ball check and talk about I was like, Oh, two wives. I listened to Aubrey Marcus talk about it Kyle. I heard all of these. And, like, I was just like, and then, like, when I started to go deep with Meg, I was like, I don't think I have fucking time. No, like, I don't have time for that. I don't have time father. And what that's afforded me by deeply choosing Meg, like, and I'm gonna flex a little bit here on my and then sort of celebrate myself. Is like, every man that rolls with me in my inner circle has a pretty fucking epic relationship now. And we were sitting around at Keegan's place, and like, what's something that you're really good at? And I don't really own my my true genius in relationships, because that's what I'm really fucking good at. But I'm sort of still, I just, I'm obsessed with men's work, so I'm still finding my way. But, um, I was like, Dude, I'm fucking so good at relationships. It's fucking, um, it's ridiculous how good I am. And I said, I just want to honor that every man in my man in my field that spends time with me ends up in a devoted relationship with a really great woman. And like, that's, that's where I'm and I was like, oh. And I looked around at these bros, and I'm seeing all of these great relationships come online, and these these men that are going to have children with, these women that my kids are going to get to play with. And I think it's no fucking like, no mistake that, like, you're bringing a child into the world. I'm bringing a child in the world. Some of these other brothers that I'm like, deeply like, Lena is just pregnant again with his beautiful wife. And I'm like, it's no mistake that this is starting to happen more, bringing through these little. Fucking weapons of children. And I'm like, what is it going to be like when the beards a bit gray and we're sitting around the fire and our children are out there doing the you know, they're in they're in the arena, and we're witnessing that. I'm like, oh, okay, so I'm seeing it. I'm seeing this happen. Man like relationships, a really healthy relationship between a man and a woman in the home, bringing children into that like, that's the work. That's the work. Yeah, full stop. And then, like, I I also agree with this idea of those that are leading these spaces are in families, are in healthy families. I'm seeing it. And those that are leading the way, yourself, lino and now cool to be conscious who is also, we've also got a family spawning. And what I wanted to talk into before is like when we're in that dynamic, and I was talking to Jess about the polyamory, and I said, Well, you've got to go and sleep with someone now, you know. And I hadn't sleep with anyone at that point in time, but nor did I. Did I ever sleep with another woman, but she was like, I don't want to sleep with anyone else. She's like, that does not excite me at all. And she's like, all woman want one man at their core, those that are pretending and like sleeping with other guys and saying it's fun, they're all underlyingly suffering. They want a man. They want a man to call them their home. They want a man to hold they want a man to hold them. They want a man to to love and love on like every woman wants a man to love on. Yeah, man, you made me just think of my sister and her husband. I facilitated their wedding. I'm a marriage settlement. I'm just, of course, I'm obsessed with relationships, but I got to facilitate their wedding, and they both wrote down all this, all their stories, and it was, it was so beautiful. And I'm sure Eliza won't mind me sharing this, but she Tom worked out on a farm, and Eliza worked in town, the town called Now Brian. We lived in we war, and she'd like, stay in we war. She never really did, but she'd pack her bag to, like her overnight bag, and she'd get home and she'd, um, she'd go to work, and she said, you know, she would sit there, and at 530 between 530 and six o'clock, a text would come through from Tom, are you coming out tonight, and like she wanted to go and he wanted her to come. And it was this, it was this dancing of them finding their their sovereign choice, like, Hey, I'm and it's vulnerable to choose someone, right? Because it then opens you up to being loved in a way that maybe you didn't really feel worthy of, or maybe it might feel suffocating. Meg laughs at me because I'm like, she'll do one thing for me, and I'm like, Okay, love cups full. Don't do anything more for me. I was going to try and push you away that that right there is truth, you know, because women, women have so much freaking love to give, and sometimes we as men do feel suffocated when we've got lots on our play and a woman's like, just trying to give us all this love we are in our mind, logically, trying to get ourselves out of the situation that we're in within business, within another dynamic. But when we're being loved on too much, it does get suffocating, and there needs to be communication there, being like babe, not right now, or like babe in 1915 and like, that's necessary because man woman, have so much freaking love, like it is overwhelming when you choose to open yourself to it. And a lot of men in this world, unfortunately, may not ever get the opportunity to feel it, because they're so afraid to let somebody in. Yeah, yeah. Man, totally, that was that was a big one for me, like my my relationship with my mum was super enmeshed emotionally, and I learned that for me to get love, I had to be a certain way, and I wasn't allowed to be these certain ways. And that's what my relationship was taught me, is that these other things that I'm ashamed of, that I have made mistakes, where I fuck up, like I have to be able to bring them to her so she can really be a space for me to alchemize. And there's this huge alpha male kind of movement right now where, like, a male always leads and he can like, and he goes out, makes the money, and he provides him. When he comes home, his woman is like, comforts him and does nothing, like, never challenges him, and it's like, that's fucking bullshit as well. I just want to speak that, because there's been so many moments if Meg didn't have that deep, feminine, intuitive, fucking like notion that what we call the Oracle, if she didn't have that, like, I'd still be fucking working at the job that I was working at, if she didn't feel something deeper and bring it through and share it with me and ask, Hey, what's really going on? Or hey, tell me how I can love you better. Or, hey, stop avoiding me. What's really going on? Or, like, for Jesse, she's like, I don't want to sleep. I want you, yeah, but I'm open to you know, you finding your way. It's like, and that is the what I love and I celebrate in these beautiful women that do that, is that they allow, even though Meg was. She was a little pushy with a certain few things. And that was her, I guess that was her ready. She was ready for it. And I'm grateful that she also had patience. It's like she allowed me to go on the pilgrimage. She allowed me to go and find have the realization on my own. And I think you know what it sounded like for you as well, that like rite of passage was, ah, actually, this is me just trying to create enough room for me to not have to choose, yeah, and that was huge for me. And like, like, I was like, I'd get to points and medicine journeys where it's like, you're not here for her, bro, you're here for you. And I'm like, oh, and when you're here for you, you can really, really you, you then have to choose her. It's not about just giving her what she needs. It's about you choosing her like, oh, whoa. If I had, if she had told me that, I wouldn't have listened, she gave me space to actually find better in my own way, women are so much more developed than their own consciousness in comparison to Men like women have such depth and intuition and knowing, empathy and understanding for us as men that are trying to keep up. Yep, you know, like, I could have gone on that voyage and slept with another woman, and then I would have realized straight afterwards that, well, that wasn't what it felt like. Well, that wasn't what it sought out to be. And maybe I would have gone back to Jess and me like all right, I realize now that that was me not wanting to choose you. But fortunately, we didn't have to go down that path. I figured that out of my own, from self introspection and really challenging my whys, and this is why it's necessary to have awareness, but also brotherhood, like bros, to be like Bro, why and what are you doing, and then why it's necessary? Totally. Man, yeah, there's a, I'm gonna, I'll send it to you. There's a really great I might put in the show notes. There's a really great story called The lizard in the fire. I think a lot of this can stem from the mother wound for men, like for me, it definitely did. Was this, like, I'm not, you know, it can be really hard to choose. Choosing a woman means that you're choosing a new level of responsibility as a man. And when you choose a woman deeply like her womb then becomes a space that a seed wants to be planted. So it's not just you're choosing her, you're choosing a leadership role. So it's huge. And there's a really great, really great story called The lizard in the fire. It's an African one, and Michael Mead, incredible Mytho poet, tells it, and it's just, it's just a funny story around and it'll make you'll have a laugh with it, bro, if you haven't heard it. But, um, yeah, there's a real, there's a real journey that we go on with this, with this path, and it's important to have that right support. It's important to have the community. It's important to have men that will, as I say, stab you in the front, tell you the truth. And that has been, yeah, so important for me. And I'm just sort of to slowly wrap this up, bro and bring it to a, to a to a beautiful completion. What? What about fatherhood? Like is, are you excited for what is it? What is it that you're truly excited to to experience or to reveal about yourself in fatherhood that you're you know, that's maybe like just hiding behind that veil, which in the next couple of weeks will both be, Man, I'm really looking forward to seeing the world through the eyes of a child again. I'm really excited to be given the permission to roll around the floor and play on the playground and to bring out the inner child in me. I've been I've been waiting for, I feel like I I put a lot of pressure on myself to uphold this level of professionalism with what I do, and I've really neglected a lot of my inner child that wants to play and have fun, and man like this is a in essence, it has been a big lesson for me. Over the last four years, I've really neglected Ryan in the process, and I've become cool to be conscious, which I'm not. I'm Ryan, and I've lost a lot of the X aspects within Ryan that I am, you know, so having a having a kid, I'm really looking forward to, yeah, being the goof and playing in the playground and spinning the day at the beach and making sandcastles and and seeing the world from the lens of this child that has no understanding of what anything is and just has this curiosity and fascination for being in the body, being in the body, that's what I'm most looking forward to, dude. Thank you. I think that's such a powerful thing for for a leader to acknowledge like there's a seriousness that comes with leadership, and that a child can be a great gift in reminding us that, like a sandcastle is just as important as the the castle that we're building, the kingdom that we're building. Right? Absolutely amazing, bro. Thank you so much. This has been, it's been so nourishing, and just like hard expanding to, I don't know I've. One of the things that Megan, I'd say about on the podcast, that we want to get the if we invite someone, it's got to be a fuck yeah, there's no, oh yeah, that'd be good for the algorithm, or Yeah, they've got but for you, bro, this just feels, I feel really when I leave a conversation, I'm like, I feel really understood from what you've shared. That to me is like, Ah, it's, it's soul food. So thanks for giving so so generously, dude to the podcast. And if anyone is interested in finding out more about cool, to be conscious and yeah, the movement that Ryan is leading, we'll have all the show notes down below. Yeah, these guys do incredible work. They've got a great facilitator training as well for breath work. They've got great events that happen on the beach. They've got great one day events as well. And, yeah, really back. I don't just back what what the movement is about. I back the intent I choose to celebrate and and honor what you do, bro, because of the integrity that is upheld so and thank you for holding the you know, holding the integrity and keeping it, you know, firmly planted and rooted here in society and not running away. And man, super, super honored to be journeying through this next portal. And, yeah, just sending prayers up for your beloved Jess and the beautiful baby that is coming Earth side. Man. And thank you so much for, yeah, man, being an expander for me as well with community and devotion. Yeah? Man, Kilda, brother, I thank you for all the beautiful words. And it's, it's a direct reflection of who you are and how you're holding yourself and what you do. You know, it's, that's how this works. You see in me, what what is in you? And, yeah, I really mean that. It's been beautiful sharing these words with you, man, and excited to continue building this relationship with friendship and brotherhood. Bring on, bring on the babies, dude. Bring on the babies. Let's go. Let's go. Big. Love family. We'll talk soon. Peace, yo, yo, yo. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of sex, love and everything in between. Now, if you'd like to stay connected with Meg and I, you can head on over to Instagram and follow me at the Jacob O'Neill. And where can people find you lover, at B dot. Meg, dot. O amazing. And yeah, guys, check out the show notes for all other information in regards to what we've got coming up. And yeah, we're super, super grateful that you guys for taking the time to listen in to this podcast. If you do have any topics or any questions like I said, hit us up on Instagram, and we'll see what we can do. Apart from that, have a beautiful, beautiful rest of your day. Thanks for being here. Big, big. Love you.