Ep 77: Being a Kingmaker, Feminine range & more w/ Madelyn Moon

What does it take to be a Kingmaker? 

Madelyn Moon and Meg O'Neill explore the powerful role of the feminine in relationships, showing how you can uplift your partner and become a true Kingmaker.

Madelyn Moon, a leading voice in feminine-masculine relationships, is dedicated to empowering women to liberate their expressive, artistic hearts in relationships and beyond. Her work and story have been featured in numerous podcasts and publications including BBC, Huffington Post, Teen Vogue, and more. As the host of the top-ranked podcast, The Madelyn Moon Show, and author of the best-selling book on conscious intimacy, Artist of Love, Madelyn brings a wealth of experience and insight to the conversation.

A Kingmaker helps their partner feel strong, respected, and empowered. Madelyn explains how to embrace your full feminine range, avoid actions that might emasculate your partner, and foster mutual growth.

The episode delves into shadow work—embracing hidden parts of yourself to unlock freedom and joy. Meg shares her role as a vision holder in her relationship, leading with integrity and care.

Good communication is essential. Madelyn emphasizes asking your partner directly how they feel to ensure mutual respect and value.

They also riff off on: 

• Madelyn Moon integrates humor and creativity into her teaching, emphasizing the integration of all aspects of oneself for personal growth and healthy relationships.
• Embracing shadow work to access hidden parts of oneself and achieve personal freedom.
• Exploring primal desires and energies as a pathway to intimacy and connection in relationships.
• The concept of "kingmaker" versus "king breaker" dynamics in relationships, avoiding subtle forms of emasculation.
• Importance of owning and integrating all aspects of oneself, including those seen as negative, for personal growth and deeper connections.
• Embracing feminine leadership and expanding emotional expression in relationships.
• Cultivating radiance and body awareness through feminine expression and somatic practices.
• Discussing the impact of emasculation on relationships and the importance of radical attunement instead of punishment.
• Refining emotional expression and receiving feedback from partners to deepen understanding and connection.
• Madelyn Moon's emphasis on feminine consciousness and integrity in relationships, encouraging speaking one's truth and trusting in positive actions.

and many more.

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⚡️Let’s Stay Connected:

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Website: https://maddymoon.com/

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Transcript

0:11

Hi, beautiful humans, welcome back to sex, love and everything in between. I have such a fucking exciting guest for us today. We're going to have such a killer conversation. We've just had some tech issues, and we were just saying the foreplay has been epic, or there's been a lot of foreplay for this conversation. We're ready to go. We have the beautiful Madeline moon with us. Welcome Madeline. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It is a honor and a treat to be here. I i Love introing people. And we kind of did this before, but I'm going to do it again. I love intro people, not necessarily with your like, you know, standard bio, but just how I found you and why I'm inspired by your work. And I found one of your reels, like, three or four years ago, and, you know, just immediately, just the way you bring yourself to Instagram, and the way your creativity, just like pulses through you and pulses through the screen, it just like stood out to me so deeply. And I was saying that before, in a space that can sometimes feel just very kind of copy paste, your work stood out to me so deeply, and I've been following you ever since then. And just love again, your perspective on relationships, masculine and feminine dynamics, feminine range and like full feminine expression. And I also love that it's just not like you're an incredible teacher, but also the way you embody that is nominal, and the way you like that the felt experience of witnessing you online is is so deeply embodied in your work. So I'm so grateful for you and your work and what you bring to the world first. No, thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, you know, I've been teaching for I guess, like at this point it's been 13 years in some way, shape or form, like since the very beginning, when I first made my first Facebook account, my quote fan page. And it wasn't really until I integrated my ridiculous side and my humor and just like my creative expression in that way that I started to find my unique blueprint of being a teacher. And, you know, the last version that we recorded before the tech issues, you said the word regurgitation, like I am not regurgitating, like a lot of what we see and part of my creative expression via comedy came through out of actually, like, a frustration with this regurgitation space. I was like, like, I'm a part of this, and I'm part of this world of like, Yeah, same thing. Everyone's saying the same thing. And I was a part of it, and I was looking at myself, and I was like, I am frustrating me, and that frustration is really what led to me finding my my comedy, or integrating all things I always you knew my dad, you'd be like, Okay, I can understand how you are the child of this man, because my dad is probably One of the goofiest men anybody has ever met. And so once I really was able to embrace that part of me that is him, and bring that online, all of my business expanded. And I was I found a way to teach that was different than the same saint, you know, was different different way to teach the same thing. And I think everyone has that capacity, maybe it's not comedy, but the capacity to integrate some part of them that's really sparkly and different or weird or quirky in their work that is going to resonate with the world deeply. And I love, I love what I see you teach on relationships, and I really bring this through in my work with women as well. Around like, I love what you just said around you, you like, worked with this part of you. You worked with, like, I could almost see it in your face, like the disgust, or the part of you was like, like, I'm part of this regurgitation. I'm part of this industry. And you, like, brought that through and worked with that to bring through, like, a deeper expression, and one of your late or, like, one of the reels you've done the last few months, that Gremlin one. Or, like, there was one I loved that, oh yeah, the Goblin, yes, the goblin. And I, just because I'm in my own I've been with my husband for 10 years, and probably the last five have been me coming into my full expression and me, I say, like descending into my body. Before that, I was just like, shoulders up. I'm this good girl and like, and that has been a huge part of my journey with him. It's like learning how to not go like. And I was very ultra spiritual before that. So. I don't get jealous, I don't get angry, I don't like I'm beyond all of that. I've bypassed and transcended all of that. And one of the most powerful things for my relationship has been to like own my jealous bitch, and to like own, you know, the craziness that I feel and like own all these different parts of me and integrate them into my and integrate them and allow him to witness me in those pieces. And I'd love to hear I'm sure I'm going to assume, from what I see in your work, this is like a deep desire that women come into your world with, like, a yearning to like, liberate these parts of themselves that have been hanging in the shadow these parts of themselves hold, like unallowed or undesirable. Yeah, there is an entire world, and what you're speaking to an entire world with so many doors we can open, and it's kind of never ending. One of the things I just want to point out, because you demonstrated it so beautifully is that when you were talking about the transcended version, your voice got really high. I'm not jealous. I'm above all that. And that's how a lot of us, a lot of women, are walking through the world. It's we live in a transcendence obsessed society. Are, you know, in the West, at least, the number one religion here is Christianity, and I think that there is a lot of embodiment, kind of like not warnings, but a lot of mystery within our Christian roots, around a story where our main God was transcended and disappeared, rather than put back into the soil and the earth. And I'm not saying anything is right or wrong, or true or not true, or anything like that, just wow. Isn't that interesting that we have a country and many countries that have a story at the heartbeat of it around transcendence, and then we have all these humans walking around unawareingly obsessed with transcending with purity, with a disconnect between primal desires. And what happens is our energy gets really high. We get we leave the Earth. We become flighty and anxious. We leave ourselves. And then, when you started talking about your jealousy and your primal bits, your voice got deep, and everybody listening to this podcast will trust that voice over the and it's why there's a lot of mistrust that's happening out in our world, is because all these nervous systems are flighty, transcended, obsessed people trying to lead each other, and it's very rare that we have someone come in and drops the bait and brings the earth and brings the fire and brings the womb. And our culture thinks to people like you who are speaking about these things on podcasts, it's waking up. It's waking up to the need for deep, primal allowance, acceptance, receivership and and it's the answer to a lot of the things that we're struggling with. Like a lot of times I have women come into my work that will have frustrations around not feeling really spicy with their beloved, and their Beloved's trying all the tricks, and they're going to Tantra and their eye gazing, but yet I'm plateauing and I can't experience the realms of intimacy I'm trying to reach. And it's because you are inviting him to fuck the beautiful pieces, yay, but you're not inviting him to fuck the gnarly pieces, the Goblin, the Gremlin, and that's where your deepest orgasm lives. That's when you get to do shadow work and be penetrated. There be like, show him that side of you, the dark side of you, the scary side of you, the wild side of you, the ugly side of you, the spitting side of you, the inside, outside of you, the dirty, the nasty. And not just, I'm a dirty girl, but like, dirty, like, can you get dirty and messy? And I am still on my own journey of how much more deep can I go into that? Because I've been called out before. Okay, yeah, that's dirty and wild and crazy, but you're still making it pretty. We are conditioned to make these different parts of ourselves. Gotta see we're still making our goblin. Gotta see myself included. It's really deep. It's really deep. And the deeper we can go into those, those nooks and crannies of our body, our bones, our blood, that somatically we don't know how to access when we really make it our life's work. Let me start our work right now to access those places somatically so. So much of your body now get gets to be utilized and experienced, and so much more of you, not just can now love like the goblin gets to love, but they get to love her. They get to love he gets to love the goblin. And it's pretty remarkable work. And of course, that one, that one act of going bravely into shadow work and to give a shape and give a form to a part of you that you haven't yet liberates whatever's on the opposite side. So this is the premise of shadow work. The more you go into any shadow of yourself, and I'm not talking about like writing in a journal about your shadow. I'm talking about acting out, enacting, embodying, the more you go into that, the more access you have to the freedom on the other side. There's so much freedom and breaking the patriarchal rules of being the goddess, there's so much freedom and saying fuck off to transcending so much freedom when we get to put down the ways that we've been chasing perfection and cultural beauty, and we get to embrace wild and we get to embrace truth, and we get to embrace the Crone, and we get to embrace not having things figured out, not being beautiful. You know, even that, of course, is beautiful, but more so the essence of being willing to go into a place that may not look beautiful, and what that can liberate within you for true beauty, true radiance. Oh, my God, all of this, all of this, all of this. I love when you said we're still trying to, like, dress our goblin up as the goal, like, Goddess over and I feel one of the biggest like, yearnings, or like, not even say like, it's an ache that many women come into my world with, is it's like, I want him to to welcome all of me. I want to be witnessed in all of me, I want all of me to be loved in the space. And what I also see is a lot of women waiting for their men to somehow give them permission to bring that or feeling this sense of like, oh, I can't bring that until he and I know on my journey, I felt that for a while, and I'd love to hear your perspective on this. But what I found is like, this is a huge part of what I see as feminine leadership. It's us being I'm a bring the goblin. I don't know what the fuck is, you know, and also granted we feel there's a there's a level of love and safety and all these things as the foundation. But, you know, to be able to to not feel that we're having to wait for some level of permission slip, because that's never going to fucking come. It's going to be awkward. It's going to be uncomfortable when we first doing these things, when we first do these things, yeah, yes, yeah. I mean, there's, there's a few things that I want to say here. The first one is, yeah, speaking directly to what you're talking about, that's outsourcing. That is pure outsourcing that I can't bring parts of me online, and it's actually because this is the real reason why it's not only just outsourcing responsibility to your partner in that moment, but it's actually an inability to be with the feeling that's going to come up when you enact in that way. So that's the actual key to go into, is, what's the feeling that comes up even when you just imagine revealing your, let's say like, your agony? Like, let's just say agony, like, maybe there's some some agony in you, or some jealousy. Actually, that's a better one. For this example, there's jealousy and you want to make some art with it, or you want to reveal it, or you just want to, like, full bodied, just show him how you feel with your jealousy. The the real thing that people are avoiding is how they're going to feel normally in that tiny little pause after they do the thing. So let's say, you say something, you show something, you do a temper tantrum, and then there's that little moment after you're done, where it's silent. It's kind of like if anyone's ever screamed inside of a car. And then you stop, and then you the silence, like echoes in your ear. We have an embodied silence. And then in that silence, so much can happen. We can like, oh, we want to, like, fix it. You know, fit, you know. You want to fidget. You want to you want to say something afterwards, you want to then disperse energy. You want to disperse the energy that you just create. Created. You just created a whole bunch. Now you're uncomfortable, and you want to disperse it by explaining it, by asking him a question about it, by leaving the moment because it's all too much. The deepest work is expanding your capacity to be with that moment, that moment of silence, without changing anything, fidgeting, dispersing the energy waiting. And that's a practice that is a deep, deep, deep practice, and that's actually what's going to lead you into more of a queen. Your Queen archetype is to be able to sit in the silence after you've revealed something tender. And yes, he may not like it. He may feel butthurt about it, he may respond beautifully. It may trigger something in him. And the thing I always like to circle back to is that we are artists of love. And as a byproduct, we are art. One of the main purposes of art, and always has been, is to create a ripple effect. So if you are living, breathing, embodied art, and then you have a feeling that you're like, Oh, I deserve to have my own feelings and to bring more of me to the table. And he has his own experience. Good you're being art, and he has every right to have his own experience. He has every right to resonate with it or not, or kind of figure out his way through it, and it'll tell you a lot about y'all compatibility, about the freedom and the connection, about the pillars that you both hold. And also something important to say is that there's his feedback, and how you do reveal your heart is also very valid. You know, maybe he has something to offer you of how it came out, and there could be even more attunement to how you share the truth of your heart. And that's beautiful as well. And I know I want that not to have someone kind of put a wet blanket on me, but rather a King who says, Hey, there's some more fine tuning that we can we can do here to reveal the truth of our heart with even more open hearts, because a lot of times, not all the time, but a lot of times, when women are like, I want to have all of me held, all of them is still A habitual response, yes, yes, yes, it's a habitual response or or it's, it's, it's in reaction to a habitual response. So a great example of this is like sharp fucking anger, anger in its purest form, is heart centered, very heart centered. But then we have anger that's been infused with resentment, with projection stories, with conspiracy theories. And when all of that starts to bubble up, especially over time, like if you've been holding something back, and then you start already preemptively thinking he's not going to understand you. Then when you share your anger, it's not pure anger. It's filled with all that stuff, stuff from your past, stuff from who you think he is, how he's not going to love you after this, and then you shoot that directly into him. And I don't, I don't believe that any of us is, if we're really growing into a mature path of the feminine, want that to be our landing pad. It's a stop to stop. It's a stop to get to our destination. But in mature relationships, we want to receive our partners feedback. If something didn't land very well, how can we continue to fine tune our expression so that we can get deeper into the real purity of the emotion, of the feeling, rather than the story. I love that so much, that refinement, that's been a big part of my journey. Yeah, and not just like I'm a fully expressed woman. Take it or leave it. See, I knew you could help me. It's like, yeah, there's this journey of Yeah, I love that way you spoke about that, like being open to the feedback and seeing that as a beautiful opportunity for us to attune and refine transmission of love even more. Yeah, yeah, you teach on this so fucking beautifully, like you teach on this. So thank you. Thank you. I love this. I mean, I've always felt so mesmerized by the somatics and in different ways of my journey, I used to be an acrobat, and I've traveled all over and got all into different, you know, bodybuilding and just like, really obsessed with the body. But it wasn't until I found this work where I was like, Okay, how does, how? How? How does animism live in the body, really? It's like, how does life force that permeates all things inhabit our body? And how do we let energies and essences almost like different spirits? Is inhabit us for the greater good of love, for the sake of love. Yes, I'd love to hear like, what do you witness in a woman when she taps into this, when she starts to, you know, practice allowing body to be animated by the many faces of the Goddess. So much radiance, so much radiance. It's the number one thing. And you know, my my work, my containers. I'm always encouraging women to go into the dark side and let it all hang out. I love, I love creating containers for women to bring all of their chaos like so that they can learn how their body holds their chaos. The container is just a reflection of their body. So when you have a strong enough container, you can experience this like pulsating expansion of your chaos, your fullness. And the reason why we're not going into these sides, these dark sides, is because we don't know how to hold it, the discomfort, the feeling of it, will I ever get out of it? What will happen if I go so far deep into it? You don't have those questions when you've changed your body's capacity to hold you, you don't have those questions. I never worried I'm going to get lost somewhere I have definitely, like a year and a half ago, I really got to know what I would consider my my darkest experience of mental psychosis wasn't classified as psychosis, but just like seeing the Crazy of my head. I went to some crazy places, and I wasn't worried I was gonna get lost there. I understand energetics and how things actually just need to move through. It was like, it's like sometimes the energy of a frequency is looking for a willing vessel not to take over, but to live and be freed. So where I was at that time, and heartbreak was so intense, and it was so not from just me. It was from something beyond me. It was like my family systems, and it felt like I needed to be a willing vessel so that this stock can move through. And it was gnarly. It was so gnarly. It was not pretty, it was not goddessy. It was like on the floor feeling hopeless. Will I? Will I ever get through this and that experience of learning how to be in that state in my mind and be with the mind trained my body's capacity, okay, that nook and cranny now has been experienced. So my body's capacity to hold that kind of chaos has now been expanded. So anytime chaos comes up in my life and other shapes and forms, I have that trained in the vessel, and when women can trust themselves in that way, rather than what we've been taught to do, which is outsource, outsource. Are you my daddy? Are you my teacher? Are you my this? Are you my that we finally feel like we're able to hold that the entire like, all the possibilities of the world are available to you, maybe not every single possibility ever, but like somatically, somatically, you're not going to be outsourcing anymore. What are the types of relationships you've won? You can have them. What? What kind of relationship with abundance Do you want to have? You can have it. So much more is made possible to you when you're not outsourcing power, responsibility, wisdom. What do I do? How do I this? And it's all in the body. It's all living inside of your somatics. And that kind of freedom brings radiance. And another thing I notice a lot is laughter. Laughter, so much laughter. Mean, there's, there's lots of things that I'll have women do, and at the end of it, they are laughing so hard. And again, that's a source of radiance. Radiance comes from that kind of full body to liveness, just like circling back to when I said the question or shared before around like, that deep yearning so many women come to me with of like I want him to accept and welcome all of me in relationship. And you know, I think you just spoke so beautifully to that as like that's never something you can outsource. And often, some it's like a man could be standing there and being like, bring it all. But if you, if a woman isn't practiced, and what you've just shared, that's she's still got to be with all that comes with bringing, bringing herself and offering these the relationship. So, yeah, I just that was just such a beautiful, yeah, transmission of that. I'll also say too. One more thing is just kind of coming up sometimes, when we are encouraged to bring all of us, it can create a little bit of a freeze response, you know, because we want it, but now others are expected. It of us, and now that's the practiced thing to do, and that's the feminine thing to do. And there's something wrong with me that I can't bring it all I remember, like, just, I don't know, three years ago. I mean, so much has occurred in my expression in three years. Because I'm three even, even just three years ago, I remember I was dating someone, and they had said on the hike, and they said, you know, no matter what happens with you and I, I want you to choose better men. Like he was encouraging me to, because I was telling him about old dating stories that made me so mad, because I was like, but I'm with you. Like, don't say shit like that. I'm with you. You're the man I'm choosing. Let's not talk about future, you know. And instead of knowing how to be like, what the like, we're talking about future, we're together. You're my man, you're my man. Pound, pound chest, pound chest. Instead I like, like mad. I was, I don't like, you know, I just didn't know how to express that. And he could sense that, and he was like, Are you mad? Like, okay, bring it, you know, encourage, like, bring show me. And I remember, remember, I picked up a tiny stone on our hike, and I just, oh, just threw it. It was such a weak, weak attempt. But it was, you know, the tiny stone attempt, and that has paved away for more and more and more because, you know, we can be expressive online all we want someone can be the greatest content creator ever. And then the minute, minute you're in front of someone that you love, and you've got something that wants to be expressed, there's all this other stuff that's abound, like, you know, parent wounds and therapy wounds and past relationships, and you're it's not combating, but you're facing all of those things when it comes to feminine instinct and responses. So if we're really trying to learn how to be responsive in the moment, sometimes it takes a little bit of time. So give yourself permission to have you know the one step? What's the next one step to bring all of you? Maybe it's not all of you. There's probably so much more available. It doesn't have to be all of you, but maybe just one inch more of you, just one inch more of you. Can you offer that eventually it becomes much, much more so good. I want to switch gears a little here. I'm sure, like, threads of the conversation we've just had are still going to be so relevant to where I want to take us next. But I love, and again, this is a huge part of the work I teach, too. I love some of the stuff you've been bringing through lately around, like, our capacity as women to either, I think you put it as, like, king maker or king breaker. Yes, I would love to hear more about that. And how, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of women listening to this, being like, well, I want to be the king maker, obviously. How do how do I do that? I'd love to hear you speak a little more. Yeah, so the king, the king breaker, is the way that I view one emasculation. We are king breakers when we emasculate. And emasculation can be much more subtle than we think. It can be more subtle than you're not man enough. Like, that's an extreme example, but we also have subtle ways. We kind of jab our partner. Something that I did is I was getting frustrated with a partner's like, driving, driving, you know, which is a pretty like, you're setting all the time. When I speak to women about, yeah, yeah, you know, it's like, it's relatable. It's very relatable. And the driving is like, it's very important for most men to feel like they are driving really well. And for a lot of women, we're so we're such multitaskers that we can, like, carry on a conversation, and we could drive, and we could do this, and we can all these things. And I really jabbed at that when I was upset once, and it was in a very kind of covert like, I think I should drive if we're gonna have a conversation in the car, because you can't seem to drive whenever we're talking, and I know you want to talk to me in the car. It's like not it was a king breaker move. And as a king maker, we are holding the vision for the relationship as an entity, the relationship, it's not only about, I'm going to make you a better man, or I'm falling in love with your potential. It's, it's absolutely not about falling in love with potential, but it's, it's being about in the devoted, committed relationship, to divine union, not only to your specific relationship, but just to Union. And there's so much disturbance between men and women still, you know, there's just, there's tons. And if you're taking the path of being the king maker, it's two different kind of avenues. The first one is in partnership. When you're in partnership, it's you, you learn how to uphold that vision through an open heart. So there are obviously ways, with my simple example, that you can clearly and with love, share the impact the driving has had on you and what you desire. And that takes intentionality, and it takes being humble, because it's actually a lot easier just to be snarky about something, and it also feels like you're protecting yourself, in a way, from being vulnerable. It feels you're taking a power stance. And it's a really old dynamic where we think punishment works. We have been raised in a society that has tried to make punishment work, and it has never worked. As a king maker, you understand, punishing does not work, punishing him and punishing yourself to punish him, which we do all the time. I are mad at your partner. I just love mad at your partner. Sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. I love that you pointed that out, because I've been having lots of conversations with clients lately feeling like and drawing this piece forward in them. And I once felt this around like, Oh, but I have to point out what he's not doing, and if I I wasn't pointing out, if I wasn't punishing him. If I wasn't pointing out what he wasn't doing enough of, or he wasn't doing right, won't change. He'll just think that everything's okay. He'll be complacent. So I, I've never heard it in that way of like, our culture is normalized this, like, you know, punishment is the way. It's just Yeah. That landed for me really powerfully. It's also why we do it for ourselves. It's also why we punish ourselves. And, you know, in the mind, there's just like this, you know, intense kind of flogging we're doing mentally about ourselves, and flogging we're doing mentally about them. And it's not going to work. Never will never will work. And, and it's an art, it's a art form and a skill to learn how to get into radical attunement with what is your truth. Pick and choose your battles. Find Your truth about the thing that's really important to you, and then share it in such a way that also you would want information to be shared with you, like and with love as you're holding the vision, it's like the vision of driving together in a car with him being the driver. You want that probably too you don't want to drive. Probably want him to drive, and want him to pay attention to the GPS and the conversation and the road. So maybe there's a way you can work together, so that conversation is saved for a specific time of the drive, getting on the road and following the GPS, say for the rest of the time you can work together as a team. So there's so many avenues we can look at as a king maker in relationship, and there's also just so I slide that in when you're single. And this is about looking for the good and the masculine, looking for the good. And one of the things I talk about in my I have this, I have this free masterclass about magnetizing your man. One of the things I talk about is that women who are emasculating and who are trying to find their man have the most scarcity. They have the most scarcity because their pool becomes smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller. And oftentimes, what they'll do is that, because they're already living in a scarce place in their mind, when someone does ask them out, even if they're not attracted to them, or they're not a fit, they'll say, Well, this is as good as it gets, so I'll just, you know, I don't want to miss out on my one opportunity for an okay man. Then they'll go on a date, and they'll kind of re traumatize themselves, and they'll remind themselves, oh yeah, this is why guys suck. But it's because of that scarcity mindset around men that's leading you to saying yes and picking these men that actually aren't fits for you. So you can stay in your story. You can stay in the cycle. Rather than seeing the good in men. You can see the good in the man that's asking you about, learn to actually see the good, rather than seeing all the bad, and then saying, Well, why not see the good in him? The Wow, he asked me out. He's taking leadership. He's interested in me. I can feel that the juice that's being sent my way. Thank you God for like just letting me receive some energy and be in the vortex. And he's not a fit, and I can own both of these truths. And he's not a fit for where I'm going, because I'm holding this vision of my. Relationship, and I do not live in a scarce world. I know there's so many more men available. I know this is not my only one man, and I'm gonna keep sending out like my transmitter that I'm available. We choose the wrong men when we're living in scarcity, and then we also emasculate. So again, like the king maker in single dynamics when you're calling in your king is learning how to see the good and also learning how to uphold the vision of the relationship you want. Everywhere you go, everywhere you go, and believing that it exists. I want to circle back to what you said around like punishment. If a woman is like, and I feel like the first step is be like, oh, like, maybe being with the confronting truth of, I'm a king breaker right now. Like, oh, I've got some of those dynamics. I would love to hear what you'd suggest to a woman that is moving beyond, like, maybe realizes she's using punishment or emasculation in her relationship and is wanting to, you know, support her man to you know, rise in his in his king energy, um, what? What would that look like? Well, number one, I'd highly recommend that you have a conversation with him, or have a con if you're in relationship, as you ask him, when do you feel emasculated by me, baby? When do you feel emasculated? What are the things? Lay it on me, give it all to me, and then you breathe deep, you sit there, and you honor this request you have just made by truly taking it in expand your capacity to receive this feedback, because it might not be comfortable. You might say things and then be like, well, you deserved it that one time, and you have to put all that to the side like and really truly step into the part of you that wants to know. Can you access the part of you that really wants to know? I want to know, and anchor in that the whole time. So get really clear on what are the ways that you emasculate if you're a single then ask, ask, you know, you can ask exes. If you're still in communication, you can ask friends, and then you can also just ask people or men you admire, what are the ways you feel emasculated in life? Maybe it's not something you've done, but just starting to receive from people. What are those things? How do you feel emasculated and what would you love instead? What would you love instead? What are the actions of a woman that you would want to protect forever do, oh, I love that. Can you repeat that? That's so good. Yeah. What are the actions of a woman you would want to protect forever do? So what does she do, if you, if there's a woman you want to protect the ends of the earth, what does she do? Describe her. Describe how she responds to the things that don't feel good for her in a way that makes you still feel honored and loved. Yeah, yeah. I think I was gonna say something else, but I forgot what it was I love that going into the whirlwind. I know we're coming up to time soon, but I just want to speak. I just want to hear you speak on one more thing I loved before, when you were talking about women being the vision holders for relationships. I often call this like women being the torch bearers. And I think what I what I see sometimes, is in the polarity space women thinking that, Oh, like, that's not my job. He should lead. He should lead. He should lead. And I think this is something in my own partnership that I've come to see is such a sacred role, like, can I own, that I am the one that you know is the vision holder. Like, can see so fucking clearly where we can go and what's possible for us. And, yeah, I'd love to just hear you speak on, like the way. And I don't know if you'd call it feminine leadership, or what you'd really what you'd really call that, but I just loved you to speak a little on, yeah, just like a woman owning that role in relationship. Yeah, agreed. I was. I did a I did a masterclass recently called kingbreaker, and I was talking about this, and I was talking about how I believe one of the biggest downfalls of what we're taught in the polarity space is that it is the man's job to lead. He leads. Of course, he leads. It's delicious. And I really believe that it's her who deepens the consciousness of the relationship. So I would call it feminine consciousness. You know, in polarity spaces, we hear so much about how the feminist love and the masculine consciousness, which is true, but we need to bring attention to feminine consciousness and also masculine love. But feminine consciousness, she's usually the upholder of integrity. Right? And it's ideal as a woman to choose a man who's already integral. It's not your job to teach him about integrity. And because you're so sensitive, your body is like this living, breathing integrity thermometer, it just is. So with that, we have to be responsible for when to like, you know, cool, it relax. And when are the moments where we're like, Okay, this is a this is a moment. This is a time where I'm feeling a lapse of integrity or something doesn't, isn't sitting right. Great example, one of my partners of the past always, always would hang up the phone before either person said bye, and and I would also hear him do it on phone calls with other people, client people be like, and then he'd hang up, you know, it was always before anybody ever got to say bye. And it really in my in my body was like, this does not feel like that girl, like, wait till the conversation is closed. Like, goodbye, goodbye, hang out. Because it was so in his system, boop. And it just like, Oh, I just killed something in me, and so I just lovingly brought it to him. Of like, hey, you know, I know if you're doing it with me, I know it's happening in the world. And I just wondered how people across the world are feeling you don't get to, like, officially close it every single time you're always doing that. And, you know, I just feel like this would be a really beautiful place for you to pause and wait until we state our goodbyes. Then you hit the button, and he did. You started doing that. That's a great example to me of something that is small, like that little integrity thermometer in our bodies where every time it's like, oh, we're not using a blinker. So these are small examples, and then there's also big examples, like, there's huge examples, and we as women get to pick and choose the integrity places where we want to be a a North Star for not all spaces like I wouldn't be in a connection with someone where I'm teaching integrity around leakiness and sexual energy, no interest, whoever I'm in connection with that's a part they've been training in for a while. They've got really profound integrity with their sexual energy. But when it comes to like being able to drop deeper into their heart or expand wider, in certain ways, we're naturally as women attuned to that. And when we, which so many of us happen, are ignoring that voice within us, the relationship is weakened, the relationship needs that part of you, and then he can take it and run with it. So you're like that spark. You're like the Ember and the direction of consciousness. Like, here's what I feel about this thing, baby. Here's what I need, here's what I want, here's what I see. And then he's like, Thank you for declaring that now I will direct it so it's a two it's a two parter. We're in this together. I love that so much. And yes, the piece in some of the biggest like my husband, reflects this back some of the biggest catalysts, you know, over the last five years is when I've been brave enough and courageous enough to be like, hey, you know, to speak into that integrity piece. And it's not then speak into it, and then mother him to get to the place you see for him, it's into it, and then trust that man to, you know, take it on board himself. Yeah, I've, I've loved every second of this conversation. Truly. It's been and I just, yeah, I'm so grateful for your perspective in this work. And yeah, you just as such a phenomenal teacher. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Such a pleasure to be here talking about all things I love, I would love before we close up, just to hear where, if people have never heard of you, where can they find you, or, like any any ways that they can work with you right now? Yeah, so I'm all over Instagram, which is at Madeline moon. And then I mentioned earlier, I have a free masterclass, magnetize your forever man. We'll give you the link for that so people can sign up for it. And then I have all sorts of offerings that pop up left and right. I've got events happening in August in Sedona. I have a three day intensive called unbound that people can check out on my website. And then I also have a book called artist of love, amazing. Thank you so much. This has been beautiful. Thank you so much for having me. Okay, let me stop recording.