Sex, Love & Everything In Between

Ep 60: Q+A - Navigating defensiveness during conflict, opening the heart & more

• Meg and Jacob O'Neill

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 What does it truly mean to connect, to be there for each other in the messiness of love and life? 

In this episode, Jacob and Meg went deep into the tangle of feeling defensive, the struggle to stay open when every bit of you wants to just close up tight, and how to navigate the choppy waters of relationship conflicts. 

Breaking down those walls we've so carefully built around our hearts is no small feat, especially when it comes to the ones who hold the biggest pieces of our hearts.

We also riff off on:

  • Meg O'Neill shares her personal practice of choosing to open instead of waiting for her partner to be less defensive in conflicts.
  • Jacob O'Neill agrees and adds that defensiveness is a coping mechanism, and accepting it can help move through conflicts more effectively.
  • Jacob O'Neill acknowledges his defensiveness and resistance in a conflict, recognizing that it's exhausting and takes up energy.
  • Vulnerability and openness in relationships. 
  • Opening hearts in relationships. 
  • Jacob O'Neill emphasizes the importance of letting go of control and embracing the journey of opening one's heart.
  • Opening up in relationships despite ego's resistance. 
  • Meg O'Neill shares her personal practice of opening up to her partner without conditions, even when there's tension or closure.
  • Meg O'Neill highlights the power of body language in shifting energy and deepening connection.
  • Consistency in small moments leads to deeper relationships and personal growth.
  • Meg O'Neill expresses her desire for deeper connection and intimacy in her relationship, while Jacob O'Neill shares his passion for his work and the importance of communication in their partnership.
  • Jacob O'Neill shares his fantasy of being with a wild woman who commands him and feeds him dark energy, while Meg O'Neill discusses the importance of feminine manipulation in relationships.
  • Relationships require work, but sometimes it's time to let go.
  • Embrace discomfort and heartbreak on the path of femininity, as it leads to greater truth and fulfillment.

    and many, many more!

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IG: @the.meg.o @thejacoboneill @sexloveeverythinginbetween

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Jacob O'Neill:

Hey, hey lover. Hi. Where are you been all my life?

Meg O'Neill:

Right here?

Jacob O'Neill:

We haven't podcasted forever. Like probably to wait two weeks. I missed you last week.

Meg O'Neill:

Yeah, I had a nice break week did

Jacob O'Neill:

we had brother lino come and drop in and we had an awesome chat. But now it's back to me and you back to the OG crew.

Meg O'Neill:

Yeah, I'm excited. I'm really genuinely super duper fucking excited to be here. What about all for a nap? Feeling good. Feeling good. A little puppies underneath your feet.

Jacob O'Neill:

Yeah, it all feels it all feels right.

Meg O'Neill:

And we got some questions to answer what q&a today? Well, the people have already queued. And we

Jacob O'Neill:

yeah, we are graded a we so I

Meg O'Neill:

do we just want to dive right in? Or is there any any back and forth

Jacob O'Neill:

your friend Jack rose, you would say just come on, get to the point where you guys do that the whole winter. I think just like talking about what you want to talk about. Shout out to Jack brazier for his directness. When he goes talk about it. Let's just get to the topic that you're talking about. Should we just jump in, shall we? Okay. We'll

Meg O'Neill:

listen to you today. Jack.

Jacob O'Neill:

Thank you, Jack and your medicine.

Meg O'Neill:

Okay. How so? These are questions that have been sent through from yeah,

Jacob O'Neill:

there's a theme. Yeah, bit of a theme here which we're gonna. Yeah, work through.

Meg O'Neill:

Awesome. And just so you know, you can send us a question at any time. I just always screenshot and we have a collection of questions. So anytime you're listening to the podcast or something arises, just DM one of us or you can email Hello at mag dash, or neil.com. They only forgot my email because it's changed. It's the right email. Changing your name is a whole thing. Didn't when did we speak about this? Did we speak about it on the podcast?

Jacob O'Neill:

Maybe? Maybe? You know, when I was speaking someone I really maybe we spoke about it. But yeah, I've been I was having a conversation with someone about it the other day. I was like, Yeah, you're an O'Neill now.

Meg O'Neill:

Ya know, we were talking about that because we drove past a politician. You know, those politicians signs. And it was like Gail O'Neill was not winning. That's my last name I share last night with that woman like, because sometimes I just forget that O'Neill is my last name. Yeah, yeah. No, I love that. It's my last name.

Jacob O'Neill:

You're no longer in O'Sullivan? Yeah, it wasn't a big jump from No Irish last night.

Meg O'Neill:

I find I find that so fucking funny. Yeah, that I still have the Irish roots. Yes. The O apostrophe? Yeah. Yeah.

Jacob O'Neill:

What's up the Celts? Celtic traditions?

Meg O'Neill:

Okay, we ready? Yeah,

Jacob O'Neill:

that was a we had to do a loop. Okay, question

Meg O'Neill:

how to move through conflict, when both people struggle with defensiveness?

Jacob O'Neill:

Do you want to take this one?

Meg O'Neill:

Well, my opinion on this is like someone moves first, someone who if you are always waiting for your partner to not be defensive. If you are waiting for them to open before you do. Yeah, festival that's deeply conditional, you're opening your posture of opening is conditional on how he or she is, you know, appearing or reacting. And I would say if, you know, if you desire to open the moment, you have to be the one that chooses to open, of course. And as a woman, I love to see this as my own personal practice, like I want to be a woman that chooses to open, that doesn't stay in the posture of contraction that doesn't stay devoted to the story of he did this, he did this, he doesn't love me, he fucked up or whatever it might be. Like, as a woman, my personal practice is, once I noticed the contraction, once I noticed the closure, I'm diverted to opening I'm diverted to revealing I'm devoted to bringing my own body right back into a state of openness. So that's my answer to that. It's like, both of you are defensive, will you only have control of your actions. If you're waiting for him or her to be less defensive? You can't fucking control that. The only way you can open the moment is through your posture through your transmission through you.

Jacob O'Neill:

Oh, I totally agree. And just so I create some context is like defensiveness is a it's a coping mechanism. It's I don't feel safe. I don't feel safe to open. I've been hurt before I want to be heard again. So rather than thinking like how do we not be defensive as like, how can we accept that we're being defensive? That's what I think you know, a lot of the time we win. We're in a moment like that where we lock horns and there's resistance for either of us to to meet that openness. It's like, oh, hey, I don't want to open right now. I kind of want to win this. I want to beat you right now. Yeah. Like we're not beat. No domestic violence, but like, I want to win this argument I want to, yeah, I want you to lose. And even just acknowledging that just like clay, like actually bringing an awareness to that in the space, hey, like, I really want to, I really don't want to give in to you right now, I don't want to open to you. But you've just accepted where you're at, which is so much, so much closer to opening, than expecting yourself from going from defensive to deeply cracked open.

Meg O'Neill:

And I would say that's part of the process of revealing if I want to win right now. I'm feeling super defensive. And actually, I'm struggling to even listen, because all they want to do is win and for you to lose, that's actually opening, because you're revealing what's going on underneath the defensiveness, what's causing the defensiveness, what's causing the silent treatment, what's causing the, you know, whatever, whatever posture you're taking with your body or words that are coming out of your mouth. So that's like, almost like the unraveling of deeper revealing and deeper intimacy and vulnerability. Oh,

Jacob O'Neill:

and I would argue that you could bring through once you've accepted that, you're probably going to get clear on what it is that you actually want to fucking say. Yeah. So the follow up to that, okay, I can feel myself closing, I can feel myself not wanting to open to you. I don't want to give you anything I want to win. And then it's like, Ah, here I am again. Can I actually share what it feels like actually going on? For me? I think this is something completely different. It wasn't about the fact that it wasn't about the toast being burnt. It wasn't about the the car, the car door being left open and available. Look, can I share what's really going on for me? Yeah, because once you've accepted where you're at, then you get to make a decision on where you're going. And that for me is such a, such a liberating experience, because resistance takes up so much energy. Defensiveness takes up so much energy, and it's exhausting. And quite often, we can blame that on our partner. And sometimes it can be our partners. Our partner is the is the one that's closing or is the one that's not willing to meet you there. Sometimes, but like, oh, you really got to be able to take ownership. You really gotta be able to take ownership.

Meg O'Neill:

Sorry. It's just really, it's

Jacob O'Neill:

gonna keep going.

Meg O'Neill:

Go on. Sorry. Oh he's asleep. Sorry. That was rude of me. That's okay.

Jacob O'Neill:

This is who we are now. With these people. It's sitting. Room infused with dog fart. The

Meg O'Neill:

show must go on. Up to what was I saying? Where sometimes it can be your partner's defensiveness. Yeah. Yeah. And you might be

Jacob O'Neill:

leaning in. And like, if that happens over and over time, that's going to be data for you to look at. Maybe this relationship isn't for me. Yeah. But if you're, but if you're like, willing to accept where you're at that, hey, I'm being defensive. Hey, um, you know, how many times have we had that we're like, I can feel the part of it has been a brat until Bobby doesn't want to give in. And it's like, Oh, I know what I actually want. I'm just not speaking my desires, not actually being clear with what I want from the relationship and what I'm willing to give. Yeah. And once you do that, like you create so much space and this is what I was saying like your exhaustion comes from the resistance the where you're actually at, rather than from like blaming your partner for not giving you what you'd want.

Meg O'Neill:

Yes, and I love that you brought that piece around like your exhaustion comes from the resistance because we speak a lot about almost like I see them as two paradigms in relationship one paradigm that you can be devoted to is in moments of tension and conflict. My partner is my enemy that's fucking exhausting because that requires that requires defense that requires Alma course when you're looking at that person and being like, you know, they they fucked up or I need to win against them of course you're gonna bring out every fucking defense possible and all the armor and all the artillery possible. Yeah. And so that is going to be exhausting. And honestly, it never leads to deeper connection. However, you might have a pattern in which you end that style of conflict with maybe it's just the silent treatment for a few hours or one of you saying sorry, when like, you know, the other one isn't going to or whatever the pattern is, but that's never actually going to take you deeper. Like, but when you step into this paradigm of my partner is no longer my enemy. Wow, my defenses Is aren't needed. In fact, what would it feel like to take my defenses off, and to put down the armor and to put down all the artillery, artillery, I've been carrying all the resentment, all the things that I think I need to take out in this moment, and just fucking open. And when I say open, I mean, reveal what's alive. Like, can you let your partner in on what's going on for you in that moment. And that's why it's so important we become embodied humans in our own experience. Because in order to reveal you have to understand within your own body, what's happening right now. Or, I have this deep contraction in my solar plexus that feels like a lack of safety. Off I felt I've got this like queasiness in my belly. Oh, this like, heaviness in my belly that felt like this sense of abandonment. And when we're in our body, we're then able to reveal and allow our partner in on what's going down for us.

Jacob O'Neill:

And we get better every time we do it. Yeah, like your practice. You were so articulate, then. Oh, my solar plexus. Oh, that's my lack of safety. queasiness? Ah, that's my sense of abandonment. Like, you might not have that language. Yeah. But it's not about the language, it's the willing to share what's going on for you. And it's not about getting it right, or being perfect. It's about having the courage to be vulnerable.

Meg O'Neill:

And I would also say I am, I was very articulate in that. And it's challenging sometimes when we're teaching through words. Yeah. But I would say, I'd love to hear what you have to share in terms of witnessing me in moments like this, I would say it's, it's not necessarily about the words, it's about revealing through the body. Yeah,

Jacob O'Neill:

like your, your, your opening is a very embodied experience, to witness. And the thing that I keep coming back to is like to open, you have to first accept that you're closed. And that's the that's the thing is like, when you accept where you're at, then you get to choose what you do with that. And when you bring, you know, it's not about oh, I've got to go and sit for seven weeks and work out what's going on inside. We know that's, that's not it, they think the the time is now like, this is the space, this is the moment of transformation for your relationship. It's the moment of vulnerability where it actually fucking counts.

Meg O'Neill:

And I think another thing here, just if you're struggling with defensiveness, are these patterns in your conflict is noticing what you have? What conditions you have on your opening? Yes. So what are you requiring from your partner? And this can be very subconscious. But what are you requiring from your partner, in order to open so do you need him to say sorry, do you need him to buy you flowers? Do you need him to, you know, say sorry, again, for the thing he did last year that you still are carrying resentment around, like noticing, actually what what conditions you're putting on that opening. And this also becomes something that we need to be devoted to, and I'm speaking will actually speak to both men and women here is that we need to dissolve those conditions, or we need to speak them into the space. And also again, realize that it's our practice, if we're withholding our openness from our partner, and waiting for them to tick all these boxes before we offer them. Our openness that is very conditional love. That is a very conditional, I would say manipulative relationship,

Jacob O'Neill:

it's, it's approaching your like, like, your, it's like your, your heart is locked in a vault and they have to the thing that I keep coming like you, you're enforcing this belief that they must earn your openness, through through your through completing the conditions that you put on love. And it's the whole idea that love is a currency. Yeah. And that's not to say that you can't build trust and deepen and journey together in a relationship that's dedicated to expansion, growth and all those things. But if you are continually putting conditions on on your partner for them to earn access to your heart, that is that says a lot about you. And that says a lot about what you need to work on. Because vulnerability is a part of relationship. Vulnerability is one of the essence. One of the key things of relationship. Yeah. And you know, you have a duty to be discerning and uphold boundaries. But at the same time, if you're continually like layering on this checklist of he has to he has to do this or she has to do these 10 things before I even consider. You've created a dynamic that is just it is a it's a lose lose.

Meg O'Neill:

Yeah. And using your again, using your closure and openness as a tool of manipulation in relationship is no no, that is not the doorway to The type of intimacy that each one of you listening is craving, you wouldn't be here, if you wanted a very traditional relationship you want and traditional, I mean, not even traditional. I mean, like, what we normalize in society is a good relationship, like you're here, because you want to break that fucking box and you want to go so fucking deep, you'll feel so fucking mad. And that requires you to choose openness, despite what's unfolding around you. And again, I just want to bring it back to our personal practice, like this is the depth of I would say feminine embodiment, is how, like, yes, how closure is important. And we learned so much from our closure, and we can learn deep boundaries. And I'm not saying a woman has to I would say, this is like the uninitiated feminine when a woman's just walking around and letting anyone in anything, access her energy and thinking that that's openness. No, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about like our own posture, our own openness to life, our own surrender to letting life move through us. And if were withholding that, from our partner, were withholding that from ourself. So again, in moments when I'm closed, and I'm defensive, yes, I want to open for you and fast but more. So I want to open for me, I want to bring my body back into liberation. I want to bring my body back into the experience of openness, you know, depth and expansion.

Jacob O'Neill:

Oh, I think that's such a key point. My love is like, your openness isn't for your partner. It's for you, your partner and your relationship. Yeah, it's a win win win. If you're not submitting to him. You're not submitting to her. You're honoring what's beneath the story? Yeah. Oh. Okay. That's a good one to start with. How are we feeling? Next

Meg O'Neill:

question? I love that. Okay, next question, please. How can I help? Actually, let's go to this question. Because it's, it's almost like a deepening of where we've already. How do you choose to keep your heart open in conflict? So this is almost like, Okay, you talk about openness. What does that actually look like? And how can I take my body there in the moment? So

Jacob O'Neill:

like, this is like, You're aware that like, you close in points of conflict, you're aware of that. But you want to know how to now stay open when, when conflict or tension arises, right?

Meg O'Neill:

Yeah. And I would almost say this person knows she has the desire to open. Yep. But she just doesn't know how to take herself there. Awesome. So what does that look like?

Jacob O'Neill:

Pardon me, sir. I just keep yawning today. I don't know what's going on. I was up till midnight. So that probably has a lot to

Meg O'Neill:

do I pass out law tend

Jacob O'Neill:

to you in bed at 1030. I didn't. Yeah,

Meg O'Neill:

I've got this new red light that I got for Christmas. And I've been using it on my face and it knocks me out. You

Jacob O'Neill:

love that red light I love what can I do to keep my heart open during conflict? Yeah,

Meg O'Neill:

like, how do I'm gonna read the question again? Yeah, how do you choose? So it's the choice point of and I'm really seeing for this person. It's like, they are acknowledging I'm closed. I want to open how How do I open back up? How do I open my heart?

Jacob O'Neill:

The main thing that I am feeling and like, it's like, let go. Yeah, let it go. Let go, let go, let go, let go, let go let go, as I say in the ice bath, like, Oh my God. I gotta get I gotta I gotta come on, brother. Let go. I say that to myself. But really, you're letting go of control, you're letting go of a perceived outcome that suits you based on the conditions that you've set. And in that, when you let go, you can then begin the process of opening. This is not I keep coming back to this idea of like, it's not a light switch. You don't just hit on and off. It's it's an unfurling and unfolding. It's a it's a, I guess it's an expanding into openness. So that's what I really want. Want to communicate for this one is like, can you let go of what you need it to look like? Yeah. And can you let the process of opening happen over a period of time, rather than it being this condition? I just need to open to him. I really force yourself to open rather than being like, hey, openings, gonna take a bit of time? Hey, how does how does sex work for a woman it takes a while for turn on to happen. What happens for men when they when they need to emotionally even take some time. So now heart requires a little more time. It's not logical, it's doesn't follow the rules of the mind, it is much more in tune with nature. It's much more in tune with the journey rather than the destination. So for me, that's the important piece is that opening your heart is a journey. And it's an important part of the process, not what happens before the process. Yeah,

Meg O'Neill:

and I would even add to that, like a beautiful question. If we're looking at it from like, I'm here now and I feel closed and maybe and for those just listening I'm like creating this space between my hands like the journey I'm here. And then you know, point A to point B, point B over here is openness. If we look and go, I'm at point A, what's the first step I can take to point B, what's the first step I can take towards openness. And a very, very clear, or lifelike example of this is say that you're in bed with your partner, and there has been a moment of tension going to bed and there's been closure. Closure happens in the body. So that's gonna happen in our body language. So maybe you've literally rolled over. And now your back is to your partner, maybe there you've gone from like touching each other to then creating, you know, half a meter of space or a meter of space, depending what size bed you got. And so once you're noticing the closure, you could say, what's the first step to opening? I'm going to, I'm going to take my body back towards his, even though part of me is like, Fuck him. I want him to apologize before I turn my heart back to him better have noticed that I wrote, yeah, I want him to acknowledge what he did before I turn my body back to him. This is the piece where we go. No, your personal practice is to open without those conditions. In devotion, to deep intimacy, right, your openness is required. And so this I practice is all the time, especially in moments where we have that it's like, I can feel all the parts of me that don't want to turn over. And I'm going to turn over we're not saying it's meant to be like, Oh, I'm suddenly cracked my heart open. And I don't feel any tension or contraction of my body. And I just love this man with all my heart again. It's like no, that that's gonna be greedy to turn back over. The ego is gonna be like, fuck him, make him apologize. First, he doesn't deserve your openness yet. And this is the this is the pattern breaking moment where you choose to roll back over, or you choose to walk back into the room. Maybe you stormed off or silently walked off hoping that he would notice or she would notice. So the first step could literally be Can I take my body back into the space where he is? Or she is?

Jacob O'Neill:

100% for a man, this might be uncrossing your arms. Yeah, this might be like moving your hands from in front of your body, to by your side. It's just this subtle shift. He said, like what is the next step? Rather than focusing on I need to get to point B like, what do I need to do next? Alright, I've rolled over. He's a dickhead he better realize that he needs to do Sorry, with me, like, Hang on. What if I actually like open my open my posture to him? And leant back in just just enough to signal that hey, I'm wanting to I'm wanting to open here. Yeah, I'm wanting to deep in here. And that's, that makes its it feels so much more accessible.

Meg O'Neill:

Yeah, just that moment, what we do with our body can open can shift the energy. Yes, right. Yes. So when we're choosing even though a huge part of us doesn't want to and has the conditions on the opening and he he or she must apologize first and then I'll roll back over and then I'll open when we choose to roll back over first. That is the doorway that's the moment that shifts that that's the that's the portal to deeper connection.

Jacob O'Neill:

Correct. Right.

Meg O'Neill:

We've just literally potentially shifted an entire pattern.

Jacob O'Neill:

Yeah, that's and I want if you're a person that is experiencing this and you courageously roll back over celebrate yourself, honor that you are rewriting a subconscious program. There's probably been there since your fucking childhood. Like you are rewriting a pattern and I want to go big on this. I'm gonna get big I'm looking straight at the camera. I was like you're rewriting that not just for yourself. But for all that came before you and all that has come like the way that you're modeling. But your behavior is setting a new standard for your lineage. I don't know if that'll lead that'll land is strongly for women. I know men really like the idea of lineage and legacy and we speak about that but

Meg O'Neill:

we love that you love to break the motherfucking chains. We shift Eleni HD that is not just menswear, right

Jacob O'Neill:

on beloved sisters. That women's work cranking. Oh, yeah, I'm gonna have to come to a women's retreat. No, no, no, that was creepy. I won't do that. Sorry, guys. I'll return to integrity. But um, yeah, like celebrate those moments, right? Like, like take a moment like fuck I did something that I haven't done before like and I think those micro wins are what fucking move the needle and have you all of a sudden being like, Fuck, I'm where I want to be. In my relationships, I didn't know that this was, I didn't know that this was going to happen. I know that this was possible, I truly didn't believe I was ever going to get to point B, I didn't ever believe this was available. But because I chose to do the little things, and celebrate those micro moments of like, leaning back in, turning back into the posture of openness like that. That, to me is where the value is. And, you know, I think so many other industry, like so many other areas of this industry, whether it's in personal training, or whether it's in diet, or whether it's in rewriting subconscious, or all of these other things. They talk about consistency of the little things, getting the little things right, yeah. And in relationship, when we talk about opening our heart when we do it, and we do it, you know, we do those little moments, right. And I mean, like, are it like, right, like, that's the path, the rite of passage into a deeper relationship. And we do that right. Over time, we can't help but experience what it is that we've always desired. Oh, that's awesome. To celebrate yourself. Yeah.

Meg O'Neill:

And it is that consistency of showing up to those moments again, and again, this, these kinds of, you know, we we have immersive experiences for couples or for men and for women, like, we are all for transformational experiences, deep work, having support. And like you say, you speak about the work, you need to take that fucking work down off the mountain and into your real life. And so just because you've listened to this podcast, all 60 episodes, or however many were in, just because you're in full spectrum woman, just because you're in seventh and sacred or working, the gathering of man, or whatever it is. Yes, that deeply transformational experiences, but if you're not showing up to your life, with that gold, and in the embodied practice of that work, you're not going to experience the shifts, you deeply want to where it fucking matters. There's going to be little dopamine hits of transformational work. Like you need to bring that into your life into the moments in the bedroom where you're not using your voice. And you really want to enter the moments of conflict when you've rolled over or you stormed out of them into the room. Like it's it's it's the courage the transformation happens by walking your ass back into that room. Right. And there's the vulnerability

Jacob O'Neill:

100%.

Meg O'Neill:

Next question.

Jacob O'Neill:

Next question.

Meg O'Neill:

I just want it sorry, I just want to add one more thing.

Jacob O'Neill:

One more thing?

Meg O'Neill:

Yeah. I just think we set it in the first the answer to the first question too, is like, as you're rolling over and facing your partner, you're allowed to say, this is so hard like this, like, every ounce of me wants to just like, keep my back to you. But I'm, I'm gonna open like, Oh, my part of me that wants you to say sorry. And then I just realized, like, I've got to open before and get that or I'm choosing to be devoted to connecting back in with you. And I also just want to say, it's not as if we're saying, like, bypass shit your partner does without an apology. No, but there's a difference between when were, you know, when something is really needing to be apologize for versus when we're being defensive. And, you know, I'm just assuming and guessing the difference.

Jacob O'Neill:

And like, when you do that, you've done it, because you're a bit of a rollover, and because, like, I'll come, I'll come to that. But also, there's also a reason that you're closed, right? Yeah, there's a story there. There's there is an element of truth to what happened. There's all these things that we need to get to the we need to get to, but the first step really is like that returning to a posture of opening. Yeah. And, yeah, I just know, when you're rolling.

Unknown:

You just come to bed. Like, I just really want us to talk to you. I don't want to sit down with Peter. And you said you're gonna be you're really into your work right now. Yeah, we

Meg O'Neill:

can make art out of the rollover, right. Yeah. And I think the role of things I'm most proud of in our relationship is that I rollover, I might have a moment. But that moment will be a moment in time. Yes, like a moment in time.

Jacob O'Neill:

And really, what you're, what we're looking for is a connection, we're looking for a deeper connection. And like, in that moment, maybe I've worked a little later than I normally would, and I'm on fire and like, I'm, I'm passionate right now, like, my vision is calling me my purpose is calling me in a way that never has before. And I'm going to be spending more time working. And that's, that means that I'm spending less time with you. And we've had that experience where I have been in that season. And what has come about is like, Ah, I haven't communicated just how deeply real this vision is for me right now and how deeply embodied I am in pursuing it. And you've also haven't communicated how I want to spend time with you. Hey, it's important because I and I need to hear that anymore. I

Meg O'Neill:

always sound whiny Yeah.

Jacob O'Neill:

It's the cutest, because like you because you do you have to play. You'd consciously choose that archetype of like, Hey, this is me. I'm little and cute. And I want I love that. Yeah. Rather than trying to say, it's me or work, you know, you invite me. So what I'm doing is like, hey, like, this is calling me in a way that never has before. I'm really here to be like, I, I need a woman in my corner that believes in me to trust me. And I can see that if I don't make time for you. And I try to operate like this, then in five years time, if this is how I'm operating, then we're not going to have a relationship. So I want to make sure that I'm honoring you and me and us. Yeah. So hey, I'm going to find time. I'm going to make time because you're a priority. And then the opening, opening opening? Oh, yeah, I am important to you. And I'm like, You're the most fucking important woman in the world. Yeah. Yeah. So it's beautiful to it's beautiful. What comes from that one micro moment? It really is the spark that ignites the wildfire.

Meg O'Neill:

Well, we save from conflict to deeper connection. And that's only possible when you stop playing that, in that playing that game, or in that paradigm of my partner is my enemy. Yeah. And it got to me more devoted to connecting and experiencing intimacy and your partnership than winning. And a lot of people aren't willing to do that. Exactly. A lot of people value ego and winning Yes. Over, I want to feel deeply connected. And that's that's confronting to be with. Like, I'd be with that. Okay, next question,

Jacob O'Neill:

please,

Meg O'Neill:

how can I help my partner understand that I need him to be present to listen? Do you hear that? So how can I help my partner understand that I need him to be present to listen?

Jacob O'Neill:

How can I help my partner understand that I need him to be present to listen.

Meg O'Neill:

Do you want me to jump in?

Jacob O'Neill:

I think this is yeah, because I'm okay. I'm sort of hung up on the word understand right now. And I just need to

Meg O'Neill:

I would say, taking yours I would speak to this woman. And I would say, feel into the last a woman Woman feeling to the last moment where you felt like he was listening or hearing you. I would say he was hearing your words. But he wasn't present. So he wasn't deeply listening to what you were saying. Yes. And so maybe that I would tune into what that looked like was that you were at dinner, and he was picking up his phone and scrolling? Was it that he was sitting there with you? And he looked like he was present? But you could tell his mind was somewhere else? Or was it that you know, you're in? Yeah, you're in the home. And he's you know, distracted by doing other things when you're really having something important to say. So I would get clear on what that felt like. And then I would express that to him, I would say, hey, in some moments like, or it's really important to me to feel like really heard. That's, that's something I really want out of our relationship I want I want to really feel that you're, you're hearing me, yes. And I want a space where I can just like feel, like so heard and so seen. And sometimes there's moments where I know you're hearing my words, but I don't actually feel that you're really deeply listening to what I'm saying, or I don't actually feel heard in those moments and seen in those moments. And this is because sometimes you might be, I feel like you're a little bit distracted, you're scrolling your phone, or you're, you know, watching TV. You know, and this is a very, you know, clear way of expressing that. You can bring many different flavors to this, then if you want to bring as a woman, like the depth of your longing and yearning for his presence, you could say like, I just want you to focus one thing I want moments where you focus just 1,000% of your energy on me and I just feel like the only thing in this space and like, you're just like penetrating me with the depth of your presence.

Jacob O'Neill:

How would you do that with your body?

Meg O'Neill:

I would

Jacob O'Neill:

lean into that when we speak on full spectrum woman today about the dark fam.

Meg O'Neill:

Yeah, I was and it's hard to do this because of the mic position. So let me face this way instead. You only express this in words for those listening to I would feel like my longing as I connect to that longing for your presence. Like I feel it in my pussy. I feel like it's this like, I want to be consumed by you. And it also just like one, I just want like all of your attention on me. And I just feel like I can feel that energy like so deeply in my posts. See and there's also this like element here of like this like, sassy part of me that's like fucking listen not even sassy but like this commanding of energy like, mother fucking listen to me. And there's that also like this energy that comes from my pussy that's like I am a woman that will come Monjo mother fucking attention. You do not let you do not look at your phone. You do not watch the TV when I'm expressing myself.

Jacob O'Neill:

That's fucking hot. It's like I got lost. I can't not look at you right now. I can't not be consumed. I'm drawn in. Yeah, like, just like, the posse opens and drawers in the car. It's like you're drawing me in with that, that? That powerful feminine energy. Yeah. And we've been speaking on polarity. If I've been speaking on polarity so much with all the dudes in savage and sacred and like, fuck, we've been talking about some cool shit in there for any guys that want to be having great conversations with men who value depth and masculine leadership, like, Come and join us. We have the best fucking conversations, we talk about how the darkness draws in the light. And one of the qualities of the light masculine is presence. So how are you going to draw in His presence? If you want him to be present? How do you draw that in with your dark fam? And what you just did then was like this undulation in the cycle? Here, I command your presence. I didn't I you don't demand that you command it. Yeah, I will not. There is nothing that can take my place right now there is nothing that is more more important than what I have to be in this moment. And the transmission that is moving through me. The phone actually dissolves in his hand and he can't not You can't not put it down. Yeah, the TV like the TV becomes annoyingly loud, you gotta turn it down, like focus. Yeah, he will turn to you. And that is, I think that's a beautiful quality of the dark feminine that we that we can like really celebrate more. And not and because like, you know, we the too much wound comes out too much I have, but I do want him to listen, I do want to be present. It's like, you get to command that presence with the power of your policy.

Meg O'Neill:

And we were talking about this in full spectrum woman this morning, one of the women asked because you were on the call today. And one of the women asked like I want I can see something for my partner and I want to do it in a loving way. I want to be kind with the way I say it. No wonder she didn't use the word Klein, but I could hear that pot. It was like acquainting love and kindness and love and like, being nice. Yes. And sometimes love is fucking fierce. Sometimes love has to be transmitted through our longing and our fire or, you know, the fierce parts of us, especially as a woman, right, we have a full spectrum of flavors. And sometimes our man needs will sometimes we just as the embodiment need to bring through love in different flavors. And it's going to be heard and felt and received by our man in a different way. And so love can come through every single texture of ourself, it can come through the crazy bit, you can come through the sassy one, it can come through, you know, the dragon full of rage, it could come through the Gopi, you know, innocent made and kind of, you know, it can come through all of them. And we this is where it becomes creative and playful, and you get to choose. And also you get to experiment. Right? And it's courageous to experiment with these different flavors.

Jacob O'Neill:

I've got a model for this by the way. Do you want it? Can

Meg O'Neill:

I just share one more thing?

Jacob O'Neill:

Sorry, I don't I made that about me. That was That was That was rude. Sorry. I was just when you're speaking I'm literally seeing in my mind's eye how this is all flowing. When you said the maid and ours? Yes, it gets me excited to draw. I just think like, like we, we like feeding that like feeding each other. Like that, to me is so important. To get some strawberries and some chocolate and feed that feeding each other with that dark energy of the feminine. The masculine is so fucking powerful.

Meg O'Neill:

I think we need to do a whole podcast on like, what because I'm sure there's some people listening being like, I'm actually unsure of what, what, what the transmission of that looks like or what the qualities of that are. So that's always poor compensation. Well,

Jacob O'Neill:

I just want to share like a little bit of what I shared was like, you know, if if I'm going out with with my mates to go and have a beer and I'm going somewhere, right? And you come to me and you're like, you know I'm going to be out there you know, I'm going to be with my mates having fun doing something and you're like I I need him to know that he is mine. I need I needed to know what he's coming home to and if you Like it just I love her. I'm out cadaver case and you come over to me, and you grabbed me by the throat, and you clog up my chest. You make out with me, grab me by the caulk and squeeze. And then you say, have fun. I'll be here when you get home. And if you just turn around and walk away and just strip off or just walk into another room, I will not be I will not be okay. I will be like what the fuck just happened, right? Like that level of command that comes from the dark fam. And you can do that in whatever way suits you. That's just like a bit of my fantasy. Like, when I leave I want I want to know that I'm coming home to a wild woman. Yeah. And like that will keep me tethered to you like Fuck, man, I'm, I'm having fun. But I'm also know what's what's awaiting me.

Meg O'Neill:

And it's almost a bit of feminine testing that like, again, we spoke about this on full spectrum woman this morning, where there is a tendency of the feminine to manipulate total, and that can be done unconsciously or consciously. Because there is an element of manipulation. If I did that, yeah, when I've done that, you know, because it's almost like, I want to show you that I am better than anything you taste done in the world. Yeah. I'm going to show you that you choosing to go out for a few hours. You know, this is what you're missing out on. Yeah. And I used to do that a lot when you used to go to jujitsu a lot. And I'd like sometimes I do it in a really cutesy way. Other times I'd do it in like a, you know, like a more of that dark seventh time. But yeah, that this is where we can become, like anything brought into the light and way that I mean, like it's no longer playing out in our shadows. Yes, we then get to creatively consciously play with. And so, you know, anytime Jacob is speaking about one of those things, it's not then yeah, these are all conscious things we're playing with to keep the relationship alive and and to keep for me to keep me alive. And you alive. And just like the the energy

Jacob O'Neill:

grades polarity polarity feeds. Yeah, sure. Like, that's what passion. That's what passion comes from, from polarity.

Meg O'Neill:

And I would say it's beyond polarity. Because I think polarity is also like, for me as a woman. I'm not just doing that for the polarization of the relationship. I'm doing that because if I deny flavors of myself, I deny my power. And I deny my aliveness. So yes, it's in service to polarity. But I also think it's in service to just the aliveness of the individuals in the relationship.

Jacob O'Neill:

Massively. Yeah, definitely. I agree. Okay.

Meg O'Neill:

And I just wanted to bring one final thing that I forgot and that I filled out again, is, I would be Sophie come back to this question is, how can I help my partner understand that I need him to be present to listen, and I was taking that woman into the moment of like, remember the last time you felt that way? Connect into the texture of that feeling? Were you angry? Did you feel dropped? Did you feel like disappointed? Was there this sassy part of you? That was like motherfucker, listen to me. And like, connect into that? And then can you amplify that in a conscious way? Not in a projected way? Not in a? You know? I'm blaming you and you don't listen, and you're there? No, but can you bring this like creative aspect into that or bring a flavor alive? Which kind of like matches that that texture? Or that that imprint? Oh, next question.

Jacob O'Neill:

Next question, please.

Meg O'Neill:

Have we Okay,

Jacob O'Neill:

we have time

Meg O'Neill:

working on my relationships so hard for many years. Don't feel much love left? When is it time? And I'm assuming when is it time to come to completion? Or when is the time to call it

Jacob O'Neill:

I think like hearing that, like there's a part of me, it's like, I think you already know. I agree that that breaks my heart. Yeah, it breaks my heart to receive messages like that. But at the same time, it's like what's what what truth aren't you willing to like really, really own? What truth and you're willing to really, really own? And for me that's like, it sounds like yeah, the heart has been like death by 1000 cuts like willing to really actually let your heart break Can you smell it?

Meg O'Neill:

Yeah, I was trying not to last through that. Yeah, sorry. I'll dogs fight it again. It's bad. Sick Yeah, I agree with that. I feel even just you know, there's always deeper context and deeper you know, but from from the way that questions been worded, I would say, you know, working on it so hard for many years. Don't feel much love left. I can almost hear an asking of like, permission. Yeah, like, is it okay, am I giving up?

Jacob O'Neill:

What I would say you keep going about it in Yeah, I

Meg O'Neill:

would say relationships require work. And I think sometimes a relationship that feels like it could end, when placed in certain transformational spaces or containers or in with certain practitioners can reawaken when a couple is equipped with the tools, they can literally bring relationships, not even back to life, but into a whole new paradigm of relating. Oh, and I truly believe that isn't the case for every relationship. Sometimes, when we do the work, we realize that this is actually a mismatched a mismatch relationship, or I desire different things from this person, or this person can't meet me. And instead of throwing, you know, more money, more time, more resources, more energy into that relationship, there is a point at which we do need to call it and say this is complete. Yeah, and that takes so much courage, especially in long term relationships, especially if you've had a shared vision for a really long time. Like, I'm not denying the fact that this is going to be a very challenging, courageous decision. And yet, I feel like this person knows it is the decision and it is the next step.

Jacob O'Neill:

And the the the invitation and my prayer for people that are in this position, the person that's asked this question is, like, my prayers, like deeply choose yourself. Above everything else, deeply choose yourself and your truth. And from that place, you will experience the liberation. And liberation isn't always a comfortable feeling. It requires requires like a depth of feeling, what what is what is beneath the surface. But what comes from that, you know, I've gotten many men through this experience, this this exact experience. And I'm happy to say that I would argue every time that I've gotten a man through this, this this death, or this letting go or this acceptance, or this deep choosing of self every time I've guided him through that, through that initiatory passage. What is on the other side has been truly fucking spectacular. And it might not have looked the way you thought it was gonna look. But it feels greater than you could ever fucking imagined. It's the feeling that you've been aching for, for however long you've been in this working on trying to get to to try try, try. So yeah, just want to honor whoever sent that question. I know that whoever's in that position where you've where you can feel the truth of a completion coming for a relationship? Yeah, like it's not easy. No, no, heartbreak is not easy. But if it's, if it's what you're being called to, and that's the truth, like, the more you're able to accept it and meet it and bring it online. What's available on the other side is like all you've ever really, really wanted. So our whole

Meg O'Neill:

and something I always say, and I speak to women about this and the path of the feminine. But I would say you would say the same about men and the masculine. I say walking the path of the feminine is not convenient. Like if you're choosing to, when I say walk the path of the feminine it means to be an embodied woman to be a woman that's, you know, pussy led that's connected to her desires that is, is in devotion to truth, like the truth of life, the truth that wants to move through her and where she has been guided. And this means that if you are on that path, you are going to be asked to do things that don't always feel convenient, that don't always feel comfortable. That can sometimes be heartbreaking, or don't necessarily make sense. You know, death and rebirth is a huge part of you know, what it means to be a woman and what it means to you know, walk the path of the feminine, so yeah, trusting that and knowing that like, Fuck, this isn't comfortable. This isn't convenient, but this is true.

Jacob O'Neill:

This is uncomfortable. This isn't convenient. This is true. That was beautiful. My love.

Meg O'Neill:

Thank you.

Jacob O'Neill:

Thank you for sharing that.

Meg O'Neill:

I feel like I've done does that feel like enough for today? I feel like that feels like enough today. Yeah, that was beautiful. I really loved that conversation. Yeah, yeah.

Jacob O'Neill:

This work can be really, really sensitive sometimes. And I just want to honor everyone that's willing to listen to this podcast and then go and do do what they need to do in their relationship in their life. You know, being human can can be a bit confusing sometimes in this modern world. And I think it's, you know, I just come back from a four day retreat and a man doing a men's retreat and doing some deep work and I uncovered something from when I was 21. That was devastating. I've touched on trauma sitting in my body. And I went through the grief of of moving through that. And it was, you know, I've been doing this work for a while. And it was one of the most incredibly healing and liberating experiences, but also one of the hardest things I've ever had to go through. And I just want to just like, I just want to stop for a moment and honor everyone that's, that has the courage to lean into the next step, whatever that is, for you, the next courageous act, that whatever that is for you can be as small as a pebble or as large as a as a mountain, whatever that is, like, I just applaud you and I celebrate you. And I just want you to know that I deeply honored and grateful for the world that you're creating through these courageous acts and the relationships that are happening. And you know, the world that the that the children and the next generation will get to get to experience because of, of the work that we do. It's yeah, it's incredibly humbling. I love you.

Meg O'Neill:

I love you.

Jacob O'Neill:

There's been a really, really beautiful way to end this podcast. I

Meg O'Neill:

feel so, so grateful. I'm just really like internally beaming right now.

Jacob O'Neill:

Yeah, guys. Do we need to say anything about the podcast party?

Meg O'Neill:

Yeah, say something about the podcast, buddy.

Jacob O'Neill:

So if you wanting to come and hang with us, because you're listening to us, probably in your car, in your headphones. If you want to come and actually spend some time live with us on the second of March, we're doing a live podcast recording. It's more of a party.

Meg O'Neill:

I know. We call it a potty. Here it

Jacob O'Neill:

comes your You thought you're letting me do this. Do you want to share? We've got a log panel happening.

Meg O'Neill:

We do have a live panel. And I'll just reveal who's on it now because I probably could have revealed once this podcast out. Yeah, but we're gonna have a live sex panel with two guests that have already been on the podcast, my dear friends, Elena Hadley and Lola Ricci. Oh, so the fellow sex educators and tantric sex coaches and yeah, so me and those two women are going to be having a panel we're going to be taking live questions from Yeah, those live in the space. Then you and I are going to do a live relationship q&a And also live teaching. Yes. Which is going to be so fun. We're gonna have live music with an epic epic epic human. Epic food. I'm so excited I selfishly just wanted this food truck there because I'm so excited for this food. We had this food at our wedding and it's like insane we're gonna have some people's favorite part about wedding the final year.

Jacob O'Neill:

We're gonna have fresh kombucha on tap. amazing prizes

Meg O'Neill:

we've had prizes donated. One of them is a splash blanket from Yoni pleasure palace. So for those of you that don't know what a splash blanket is, it's like a blanket that is literally waterproof. So you can squirt all over and squat you can come you can do whatever the any, any any juices or anything all over it. And it will absorb it, it will wash it.

Jacob O'Neill:

Keep your bed keep any of your linens safe.

Meg O'Neill:

And then there's about we're giving away some things, some of the other collaborators are giving away some things so it's just going to be such a fun night. By the time you're listening to this, it's probably days or a week away. So come and grab your ticket. It's here on the Gold Coast, drive down from Brisbane drive up from Byron fly in from New Zealand come here but the hell you come hang and then the day after we have our intimacy immersion. So this is just for couples, this is actually going to be in our home. So it's a very intimate event. So we've just got limited tickets available for that. So if by the time you're listening to this, there's still tickets left. Come and join us for a day that is like deeply devoted to your relationship. We're going to be splitting off doing some men's work with Jacob women's work with me coming back together, your relationship will truly leave our home different I can I will guarantee that such

Jacob O'Neill:

a beautiful I'm just saying it's just gonna be a deep ceremony of opening to more and more love more and more intimacy more and more passion more and more devotion in the union with your your beloved. So, so excited and it's going to be it's going to be incredible.

Meg O'Neill:

So either DMS for ticket links or head to the show notes below and all the show notes will be there. Or head to the link in our bio. We love you. Thanks for being here. We truly adore creating these conversations for you every single week. So thank you.

Jacob O'Neill:

This is my favorite parts of the week. My love podcasting with me. Yeah,

Unknown:

I love ya. Love ya.

Jacob O'Neill:

Bye peace.

People on this episode

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Jacob O'Neill

Host
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Meg O'Neill

Host