Ep 50: Feminine testing & ‘The Nice Guy’

This episode dives deep into why women feel the need to ‘test’ their men. And why trying to be a ‘nice guy’ doesn’t make a woman feel safe. 

Here’s some of what we chat about… 

• Getting a puppy 
• How our families are complete opposites 
• What is Feminine testing & why do women do it? 
• Why it’s incredibly sexy when a man is unwavering in his belief 
• The power of playfulness in moments of Feminine testing 
• Asking for respect vs. Commanding respect 
• The risk of bringing play & lightness to these moments 
• Stubbornness vs. Being unwavering as a man 
• The Masculine art of holding a deeper level of consciousness 
• You can be a powerful woman AND enjoy the experience of being led & deeply supported by your man 
• Meg trying to tell Jacob what to wear. And why it NEVER works 
• Why the NICE GUY isn’t a safe guy 
• The Nice guy is trying to please his Mother & not upset his Father
• And much more 

⚡ If you loved this episode & the podcast, make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss anything. 

AND… it would mean the world to us if you rated & reviewed the show. 
We carefully read each and every review, and we love hearing about your experience with the podcast!

⚡️Let’s Stay Connected:  

IG: @the.meg.o @thejacoboneill @sexloveeverythinginbetween 

⚡ Want more? Here are some of the offerings & courses you can join us in…

The Desire Date: A sexy date night experience for couples ready to re-ignite passion & deepen intimacy.

Ignite Your Intimacy: A 4 week course for couples ready for a sexier, wilder, more ALIVE relationship… NOW! 

Jacob & Meg also coach individuals & couples. Reach out to them via Instagram for more information. 

Transcript

Unknown: 1:11

Hey beautiful humans. Welcome to sex, love and everything in between. You're here with Jacob and my wife, Meg. And this is the place where we have all the very, very real raw and extremely unfiltered conversations about sex, love and everything in between. It's here you get a behind the scenes look into our relationship. And we will not be holding back well, we might not know. You don't know how to do that. Not at all. So beautiful ones. Thank you for being here. Enjoy this episode. Hey, lover. Hi my man. Hey, lovers. Hey, lovers. It's been a minute since we've been in the podcast chairs. I know. We got some episodes a few weeks ago. We got organized. So yeah, I feel like it's I feel like it's been ages. It's probably been 10 days. It's been 10 days. You Enma rate g h heaven. What I said that sounds like heaven. My avoidant tendencies coming through. They just like space, you know the power of space? Yes. How are you feeling today? My love. I'm really chilled today. I feel really good. I went to Pilates. did some work. Read my book? I'm reading a sexy fantasy novel right now. Just for anyone to know. Like kind of like Shrek I am sexy shrink. I'm never into fantasy and we also got a puffy guys. Oh, yeah. Sorry, guys. There is a third person in the studio. Yeah, well, he's actually don't even give a shit about us. He's just left. Yeah. I thought I wanted him to like lie down. I thought he was gonna sit on your lap and just roll in. And I've had him he was doing that a little bit. But he's he's getting a lot bolder in his. He's definitely bring in the psychotic vibes. He's a menace. When I took him on a walk yesterday. He has been pretty chilled, though. He has he has. So yeah, for those of you that I'm sure most of you follow us on Instagram right now. We have a dog. We have a dog Jacob surprised me with a dog dog people now. Yeah, I've never owned a dog ever in my life. And Jacob you've owned? I've never known you many. I've never I didn't. I don't know. Like my childhood. There was always at least two dogs at my house. Minimum. Yeah. And now whenever we go home to your parents house, usually there are puppies as puppies. There's another dog that I don't know where it's always get dog like, yeah, there's always at least four dogs, three dogs three to four dogs that your parents there is Yeah. Yeah. So you had said a few weeks ago you were like because we wanted to get a dog about a year ago. And then we were gonna go get a rescue. And we found a rescue we liked but then it was. It was like, nearly two years old and we just did with our property isn't fenced. So we were like, that would be hectic. Yeah. And then you said like, and then because we want to have you know, children soon. I was just like, I that that just feels way too intense for me to kind of have a have a dog before we have a baby. Because I've watched other people do that. And that just looks really intense. And then you're set a few months ago, you were like, Oh, I nearly bought a dog today. What do you mean me nearly bought a dog and you were like, Yeah, I just saw some blue catalog online. I was legit. And we bought it. I nearly bought it. I don't know whether I was having a feeling lonely or needed to some I don't know whether it was driven but I was just like, Oh, I think it's time for me to get a dog. I had loved that. And that got me so excited. And then I said to you in that I said, if you get a dog do not tell me like just show up with it. And you literally did that I did that. You're even joking on inside at night like you've joked about it on Instagram that weekend when you're away. Should I bring Meg home a dog? And then I nearly brought him to the office the second one the his brother? I Yeah. And then he said last week, like a day after he got him in my cousin is gonna bring another Kelby for us increases. I don't know. I'm a nerd of that. That would be way too intense. Yes, that would be that will be full on. But I love and I reflected this back to you this week that I grew up in a household where like my dad is like wherever he is straight, he's very straight. He's like, meticulously organized or like plant my family loves a plan. Unlike growing up, there wasn't a lot of spontaneity. There wasn't a lot of spontaneity to my home and even like everything was structured even the way we commune with nature was on a hockey field. Like I was never really in nature. I wasn't really doing like it was very structured City Living Everything was planned during do something if it doesn't make sense so we I wanted to dog we wanted to dog so bad growing up, my dad was just like, No, no, no, no, no. And you like what I love family so sensible. It's so, so sensible and your family, my family is nonsense. And nonsensical. Which I love it, I reflected this back to you, that you that is a part of you that I love the fact that like, I never got surprised like that, oh, there wasn't anything that was like, Oh my gosh, when I was younger, a lot of the time. And so I loved that you just literally rocked out with a puppy. And we did not have that conversation. We didn't say like, what are the pros and cons? Yeah, you would usually rocked up with a puppet puppy and suddenly had a puppy. But I also why I can respect that energy is because you don't do that. And then go Hi, your responsibility. I was okay with that. Because you rocked up with a puppy. And I know, you're devoted to being the one to train the puppy pick up the puppies poo, like, you know, you're then responsible for the decision. And I think I've seen in, you know, there's, there's other other people use that energy of like spontaneity to maybe get a quick dopamine hit or to like, surprise their partner in some way, but then maybe don't follow up with the devotion and commitment to whatever they've brought into the space. So I just wanted to bring that because it's like, I think that's level of spontaneity is like, Yeah, that's really exciting. And I really appreciate it and love that in you. But you also back it with responsibility. Yeah, it's not just this like momentary, like feeling that I create and like, oh, look what I've done such a good job looking at me being like the surprise, the man with the surprise, but then it's like, oh, this actually requires me to now for the next 15 years be responsible for this dog? Yeah. Because I think spontaneity without responsibility is chaos. Totally. Yeah. Which, if you're a man, you know, in relationship with a woman, that is not a good combination, because that's not going to have her feeling safe. That's not going to have her trusting you. That's probably going to have her doubting your decisions all the time. And potentially, yeah, doubting your decisions, what I would say to this, and this is important for men to understand, it can be a surprise and feel spontaneous for your partner. But it can be a really well thought out decision for you. Yeah, okay. I love that. So if you want to surprise your partner, like, you don't have to, like, tell them everything or ask them everything, to make sure that you get it right. Because guess what, I get it wrong, a lot. Listen to two episodes. I get it wrong a lot. But I'm also very willing to take a risk. And that is what makes the the passion, the excitement, the attraction in our relationship, continue to grow. Yeah. And I truly believe that if I didn't take the risks that I did in our relationship, if I didn't like back myself and trust myself, and at times when you don't, you might doubt me, or you might your your stories or beliefs might come through, like, that's not a sensible thing to do. I have to trust myself, I have to be like, No, this is I can do this. That's and I think we're going to deepen into this in this episode. But that's one of the things I find sexiest about you that even in the face of my doubt, you, you are unwavering. And that's what I feel. That's what makes me feel so safe. Yes, in this relationship. And I think this is the essence, if those listening have heard of like feminine testing before, which is almost this like behavior of the feminine, where we kind of want to like push on our man to make sure energetically, we're going to keep going, I just bought it in. That's okay. We want to like push on our man energetically, to see if he's rooted to see if he's unwavering to see if he's like solid in what he believes in his decision in himself. And this can this can lean into a manipulative quality. So I don't think, you know, we should always be testing our partners, but I think this is just like a natural part of the feminine where, you know, say you decide, and this happens a lot. Say you decide to do something, maybe it's in your business or an I bring a little bit of my doubt. You will go thank you for sharing that. I'm still going to do the thing I just said you Huh, thank you. And I'm really, really appreciate you bringing those things and I can hear that you're worried or I can, I can hear that. There's things coming up here around this. And I'm still devoted to doing this thing. I trust myself. And that's so fucking sexy. So fucking sexy to be like, even when I test you, and I try and project my doubt on to you, you're not taking a fucking bar of it. And you're also gonna listen to me and have me have me experiencing the feeling of being heard. And not shaming me for bringing that but you're also not going to let it fucking touch you. And that's just like, Haha, unbelievably sexy. And you're so right in the allowing you to still be heard. Yeah, like I'm not making you like feel wrong for having that doubt or having that feeling. Yeah. And I'm not making you wrong for feet. Like for bringing that to me. It's very much a thank you. Thank you for sharing that my love, I can totally see how that that's that would be the way that you feel. And I'm also going to continue to do it. Yeah, yeah, I've taken on what I've taken, what you've said onboard, and I'm still going to do the thing that I said I was going to do so thank you. But um, yeah, I'm going to continue on the path. And I think we as women can really come face to face with our controlling tendencies in those moments, where we're not willing to be with our own discomfort. So we want to control our man's experience of what they're doing. So we don't have to feel certain things. And then that will be the thing that depolarizes your relationship removes the attraction and inevitably leads to a very much sexless relationship or the end of it. Yeah. Yeah, that hasn't man most likely feeling really disrespected, controlled, and inspired. Yeah. And as women like, underneath that part of us that wants to control and like feels the need to control and micromanage. apana underneath that I truly believe is a deep desire to feel like the power of our man and feel his capacity for life and to trust that, but that doesn't just happen. It's not as if our man just magically becomes this like, unbelievably trustworthy man, you could put the most trustworthy man in front of you. And he could be giving you so much evidence that you can trust him. But that's an inside job for you as a woman, like you need to choose to trust Him, you need to choose to be with the parts of you that like know, oh my God, I want to control I want to control it's unsafe. Like, that's you've got to be with your own discomfort. That's a huge part of the journey of respecting and trusting and empowering your man is being with your own discomfort. And that can look as simple as and we've used this example many times before. Your man is driving out to dinner he's taking on a date, or you're driving fucking anywhere he's driving, and you tell him, you suddenly realize he's taking a right when you would take a left and you think the left is the right way. There's discomfort in your body. There's like, oh, that's the wrong way. What are you doing? I'm uncomfortable. I want if he went left, I would be comfortable. And so you want to say something and say like, oh, you should go left here. That's the right What are you doing? Where again, this isn't empowering. This isn't showing him respect or trust. So in order to show him respect, and trust and really empower him, you couldn't be with the discomfort of he's gone right? I would have gone left. Can I relax into this? Can I trust that we're still gonna get to the fucking destination? And can I just can I deeply trust that he knows where he's going and what he's doing. And that's such a micro moment or a minute moment, but that really sets the tone for an entire relationship moments like that massively as a man like if you're a woman does bring out feminine testing moment like, you don't have to take it personally. You don't have to make it out that you're wrong and that you need to prove to her that you're right. Hey, man, I love you. I know you can go that way. But I'm saying I'm going this way. We're gonna get there. Don't worry. We'll be on time. I got to put on your favorite song. There's something about meeting that part of the feminine with lightness and play. That's incredibly healing. Yes. Because if you meet that part of the feminine with defense, or sensitivity like your own your own, take it personally. That is just going to the situation you What I see men do and bless up beautiful brothers in your formula driven minds is that they will then want to explain why what the woman is doing is not actually empowering them to be a man. Okay? When you do that you're controlling me and like for me to be in my masculine, I need to be respected. So when you do that, you're actually disrespecting me. Like, you're so close. And this is the the intellectual part of, of this work that we can get caught in. And I see a lot of men get caught in when they go and do the mindset work, or they read the books and listen to listen to the podcasts. But they've never actually had the chance to sort of filter it down into their body, which is predominantly the work that I do with men is like, can you actually get out of the head into your body? And then even beyond that, can you trust something greater than yourself? But essentially, in that moment, when you start explaining it to her what she's done, you're trying to help her you're almost like trying to coach her or show her how to not trigger you or not disrespect you. You want to command respect. So you like to add commands that you need to tie you up today? You really gonna you want to cry. Yeah. Because you haven't had sex like four days? No, it's been more like six. We've had a few false starts the last couple of nights. It just hasn't happened. So I think we think we needed this. The podcast, podcast always brings us Yeah. Together. Well, not always. But sometimes. But what I what I want to say yes, timing. Yeah, I will tell ya, I will tell you up straight after all of my other live Shabbat, and you will love Shabbat because just back to that point, like when you try to intellectualize and share a formula rather than practice. You're trying to help her understand how to respect you rather than commanding it with your embodied transmission of the masculine energy. Hey, my love. I know I could get you I know you could go left. And maybe that's the way that you go. But I'm going right. And we're gonna get there on time, I promise. Sit down, put on your favorite song. We've got another 10 minutes to get there. Yeah, I love that. And I think this is really, this takes this kind of like play and creativity and making art out of moments like this. It is. It's risky. Because if you're bringing play into that moment, like if you were to sometimes you'll turn to Me in moments like that, or like, you kind of play into like, hey, you know, like, I'm the man. And that, you know, you can do that to me, some women like if I can triggered by that, and I can't tell you I can you know, and I, I would like to do that. It's like I'm like, Yeah, you can get upset, okay? Throw tantrum. And I'm still going right? Yeah, but if we do this within this, like the lights of Happy Days, I'm in control my love. I'm in control. And you might have a woman that is very controlling or she's very independent based on her upbringing of needing to feel safe, because create safety for herself and that's okay, like this is this is the healing part. But if she does throw a tantrum when she gets a little bit hate, it's like, it's okay, my love. We're gonna get there. I promise. It's not all sorry. Now let's let's go left. No, yes, it's okay. You can. You can get frustrated and you can like, show me the map. You can tell me about all the turns I could take to get to the place and we're still going right? Yeah, and that's not for me. That's not stubbornness. That's like a holding. That's a holding that's like and it's like, I just don't understand why you couldn't go left. I will never was going left. That was never an option. It was never there's not a reality where I was ever turning left. So we're going right. I also going to like almost speak to the texture that I have that I'm bringing when I'm sharing these as I'm slow right? I'm like really intentional with each of my words. There's no arm as if buts or maybes is a very direct delivery of what I'm saying. And in that, you hold the deeper state of consciousness. So when we're saying holding, you're not necessarily holding your woman or taking responsibility for her emotions. You're holding a deeper state of consciousness that allows her to have her experience and then calibrate to this depth that you're holding. And that comes through your breath through your words. through your nervous system, and through just trusting yourself. And knowing that there is no way that you need to get to, like removing that outcome, releasing the urgency, and allowing whatever needs to take place. take place. Yeah. That's something I just want to circle back to a little bit is, when I said before, it's like, sometimes you'll like play into like, I'm the man, like, you know, that command respect. And, for me, I just want to bring the nuance here, into this around like, I believe women are very fucking capable of extraordinary things. Oh, yeah, I don't believe women need a man to do things. I believe if you weren't here in my life, I would be very fucking capable of doing all I know, when you're away when you like, I'm very fucking capable, very fucking capable woman. And I know that it can simultaneously play into being a damsel in distress and times, and can simultaneously play into the role of just like, resting into being led. Like, I really don't say it's so fucking black and white. I think people take this in such a black and white way. And if this isn't the dynamic that you want to play into in your relationship, that's fine. We're not saying this is the you need to, you know, play into these traditional roles and that, but I would probably be comfortable saying that no, but we're not saying you have to you don't have to, but I'll be saying that if you want a good relationship, it's probably a good idea. I'm not saying that guy. But I think I think it's so painful. Like there's such a magic in again, this is mainly I'm speaking to the woman who feels like if she was to let go of control, it means something about her capacity. And it means something about her. Her independence and it means something about her, like, No, I love playing the role like being like help me like, I don't know how to do this. Like, I need a man to do this for me or I love playing into that in our relationship. And I don't make it mean that I'm a helpless woman that doesn't know what the fuck she's doing and can't do don't do things. I'm a very fucking powerful woman in the world. I know how to make it done I have a very successful business I I know my power in that I don't doubt that and that almost means that almost makes it more possible to go in and play these roles and and to just enjoy that enjoy that experience. So I just wanted to I don't know I think I was I was watching a reel this morning where a woman was talking about traditional roles and like having a man open a door for you and then we'll all these comments kind of being like go back to the 1950s and I was just like, Fuck all right, get every single I love a man opening a door for me. I love that kind of chivalrous, kind of chivalrous, chivalrous, chivalrous behavior. And if were like can we not Can we stop making that mean that a woman isn't capable Can we stop making that mean that hey look, I'm I'm capable of all of these different things so you're not allowed to open the door for me like can we enjoy both the right to vote the right to have a job the right to earn money all of these fucking things and the right to have a man open a fucking door for us and enjoy that feeling. You can take it up you can take it as personally as you fucking won and I will continue to open a door for a woman till the day I fucking die. You can you can fuck off whoever saying that shit like I will continue to help old ladies across the fucking street I will carry things that are heavy. I will always always embrace that part of me and I will never ever force it upon the world in a way that doesn't allow your fucking rights to do what you need to do to feel a sense of impact and meaning in the world. And this is the thing that I especially women and a lot of guys who are working alongside their woman maybe you guys are both building businesses, maybe you're growing together that's awesome. That's great. Continue walk the path, you know, watch each other rise in those respective fields. But when you come back together like practice relating don't come back and like try to fucking run a third business come back and try and fucking bring up the spreadsheet or get out the fucking To Do List come back and like be lovers. Love doesn't have the the structure that a business does. Love doesn't hold this identity of like I need to do everything for myself. I think this is super important. And I I love we've just done a week to ignite your intimacy around the art of loving a woman the art of loving a man and one of the things is like, let him be fucking useful. Yeah, I can send like that brings meaning to my life. If that brings meaning to a man's life, like, I don't know, like, there's a funny story I remember. I wasn't the most embodied masculine. Through my teens, I was very feminine. But I do remember one time where we were walking along. And one of my I was with one of my friends and one of the girls that we were walking along with, we're in a group and she got really cold, and I had a hoodie on. And I took it off, and I handed it to her. And she was like, Oh, thank you. I ended up losing that hoodie, which I'm still emotionally charged about. But that's another you lost the hoodie. I don't know that. I can't remember what happened. But anyway, so never help a woman. But it always backfires. In the moment, I was like, Oh, I just took it off and handed it to her without thinking. And I was like, Oh, that's a part of me, that's like, oh, I want to ensure that you feel safe. And I remember my friend saying to me, and was like, if I had a hoodie, I would have given it to a first. Like, there is a part of us men that want to serve that want to lay down our jackets, so the woman doesn't have to step into the puddle. Like there's a part of us that wants to give in that way. And at any point, we make that wrong, or any point we push that away and don't embrace that we're really denying a man the opportunity to feel loved. That's crazy. Yeah, that's crazy in this modern world, but this that's the truth. We're denying him the opportunity to experience love through getting to be of service to the relationship service to the feminine. Amen. I was about to go on a massive rant that was not going on. Yep, stop. I think that people would want your app. Well, that sounds like that's, that's why the world's kind of fucked because we're denying the men the opportunity to serve the feminine therefore they find manipulative and distorted ways to control it and overpower it. That's why we drill fucking holes in the earth. That's why we deforest because we don't respect the feminine. And we're being told that respecting the feminine in the natural way that we want who is wrong as men. And this amplifies when we zoom right out to fucking Elon wanting to you know, set up a base on Mars literally escaped the world. And the way that we're using plastics, the way that we're doing this, this is all a direct Carlton, I believe it's a direct correlation between our, our denying a man's deepest desire to experience love through being of service to the feminine. Yep. And this is what I've learned through all of my spiritual practices. And this is why I believe like, men should have a spiritual practices because it teaches you to have reverence for the Great Mother Pachamama Mother Earth. And in that when you deepen your relationship of respect to the Divine Mother, the true like a true representation of the feminine, that trickles down into your entire life, with your woman, with other women, with your mother, with your grandmother's with, with anything that holds the feminine pole, you have, you have a deep desire to serve it and experience the respect that comes from serving it, which creates harmony, which creates intimacy, and it's kind of what we're all here to experience in this lifetime. Oh, oh. Oh, I think I think there's and I think this really beautifully segues into one of the conversations we wanted to have today around the nice guy, because I think when you said the world isn't really letting a man be of service to a woman in the way he wants to. And I think that I think that's, you know, there's a lot of nuance there. And there's a lot of things that because there is a lot of distortion and a lot of abuse and a lot of things then you know, in terms of the way the masculine has treated the feminine. But I think that also is why there is such a culture of the nice guy in our society because it's there is a lot of men feeling it's unsafe to bring this like I call it the beast. Yeah, it's unsafe to bring like the beast within me, which I would say and you know, I probably think you would say this. This is like an an integral important part of a man. woman like her Shakti energy, her sexuality, her aliveness, like, that's a man's in a beast. And when we deny the man he's based when we live in a culture, which basically says, that's unsafe, cage it up, push it down. That one that creates nice guys, which are then men that don't really have backbones don't stand for anything. They they might think they're safe, but they're actually not creating safety for the women. They're with their families, their communities, the world, like our world and our women and you know, our children, they need men with motherfucking backbones. They need men that stand for something they need men that that know their beast, and connect with their beast, but aren't controlled by it. Our whole this is important. This is a really important conversation because Like I said, like, the modern world does push against that. But that's part of the test that we as men must rise to and why the appropriateness of initiation work is coming online again, for men like it's really starting to rise up and like men want to go out into nature and be challenged, and to be cold into the depths of their beast and then learn how to be celebrated in that so they can then bring it in a healthy way to the community and become sturdy, become sturdy, in a way that allows women to really relax into that sturdiness. That word is so stuck. I love the word sturdy, sturdy, sturdy, everyone I like compliment me like God, you're you are incredibly sturdy, Jacob, you are steady people actually counting on your physical appearance and you have your legs are insane. You have very sturdy, muscular legs. I've never been pushed over, ever. I've never tripped over I've never actually sat down or lay down I've always stood up that is someone you say that a lot when people come on and your legs pushed over. But stir and then I think sturdy is also this like energetic quality of I use the word unwavering a lot. But there's this like, yeah, this sturdiness to a man like he's not, he's not going to be pushed over at the sign of like, you know whether it's tension with his woman, he's not going to fold. And that doesn't mean again. He's stubborn, but he's like, he holds his own. And he's not going to just be like, Oh, whatever you want. So there's sturdiness with his woman there's sturdiness with life. Like, if something if something is pushing against what he values. He's gonna fucking stand up for it. Oh, yeah, we saw this a lot during COVID. And like, yeah, you know, we we saw the study, man. Yeah. Fuck, it was good. It was so good that that to me was like this collective medicine journey of like, who's gonna actually stand and like not choose outside of themselves? Not choose outside of themselves. And yeah, there was a lot of guys who went through. And I'm not saying that there was a right or wrong decision, whatever decision you made, but it definitely would have some both sides would have reflected back like your your values and whether or not you're going to attune and abide by your values. Yeah. Yeah, that was, that was a big, big journey for everyone. And I think I just want to deepen into this a little more that and we can think of like COVID or we can think of, you know, any, any other thing where there's like, maybe it's a man holding a really strong opinion online, like, like a value like, or a man speaking up for something that no one really else has. has the guts or the courage to speak up against, and that's so sexy. I think as women, we love feeling that a man is willing to take a risk or willing to and not be reckless but willing to stand up for something even in the face of criticism, even in the face of whatever it might be losing something. But standing for his like, I find that unbelievably attractive. Yeah, you never want to lose like, it doesn't matter if you lose friends, but just don't lose your fucking self. Yeah, if you lose the validation or the acceptance of the crowd, never fucking lose yourself. Yeah, this is the like the path of like, sovereignty. Sovereignty is like deep inner freedom. It's not about exiting the matrix. It's not about like, becoming financially independent sovereignty is like a state of being where you know that you cannot be fucked with the relationship that you have with your own death. It's like I would rather die than abandoned what I know to be true. And this is kind of fucked up. But that's it, like, would you rather like as for me, like when I look at my lineage, like, Would I rather my father bend to the knee of a ruler that he does not agree to the values of and make it to live a life a long life with him by my side, living out of integrity? or would I rather him stand up to that ruler and have his head fucking taken off? And then I get to avenge his death in service to the value set that is of the O'Neill clan like that, to me creates the hero's journey that to me creates meaning, and then is like, does he actually die? Or does he become eternal in that standing of his values? And this is what men are looking for. They're looking for this sense sense of their own eternal nature. And that only comes from being okay with your own fucking death, being okay that your values are more important than anything outside of them. And this is like this is what turns this is really what turns women on. Like when a man can stand in that It's not that you have to go and face off with a ruler and be decapitated just to prove that you are going to hold your values. No. It's fun to talk in that and get get grandiose grand with it. But like, can you actually stand your values and like a great way to bring this into something a little more grounded and not so fantastical? I always get to like, oh, yeah, the castle, the dragon. The big thing is, I want to bring something I've got a little like analogy here on exam. Is it about clothing? No. So for me, it's like if I put a T shirt on, and we're going out and make questions, do that shirt that you could wear the white one instead, there's no shocking reality, where I will be putting on a white shirt. I am wearing the shirt that I put on because it's the shirt that I want to wear. I will never, I will never, ever let someone else tell me what shirt to wear. And I've ever like I don't mind again, even like the other day when we were filming something for Ignite your maintenance. I've got the shirt on right now. And I don't really I feel most myself in a loose fitting button up shirt with two pockets on the front. And I love that for you. But you're wearing the shirt. And I said and I did do it in a bit of a like passive aggressive. I was like, Are you going to change before we start? I did. You have been wearing that all day. washed it? Yeah. And you're like, No, I'm wearing this. I was like, Oh, you're like doing like it? I was like, No, you're like, I'm wearing it. But I love like, even when I when I that always makes me reflect on like, why do I need you to wear the other shirt? Oh, I want it to look a certain way. That's why I fucking love you because you don't give a fuck about how people perceive you. And that just gets to get it's really illuminating for me in those moments, I Don't devalue an environment that I'm stepping into either so I don't district I don't rock up to a wedding wearing thongs in a singlet right, I don't I don't devalue the environment that I'm stepping into. If it's a wedding, I dress accordingly. If we're going out to dinner, I don't fucking wear bodies. And, you know, a t shirt I wear I wear something that I I know is a direct reflection of the value of the environment that I'm stepping into. So I'm not, I'm not being a prick or being being lazy by any means. You're just owning your own I my style, which is really like owning my essence. So I'm not saying go and be a prick and just rock up to a wedding in a pair of footy shorts and thongs. No dress and respect to the value of the environment that you are choosing to engage with 100% But at any point, your woman wants to dress you a certain way. Bro, do net like I invite you to to take on board what she's saying but do not bend to her will because yeah, you're not an action figure you're not a little boy like own your style. Go and learn how to fucking put it you know where your clothes properly where they're going, like explore your style. Sometimes you'll get it right sometimes you'll get it wrong. But that's important. And I'm not saying you have to spend 1000s of dollars buying all the best clothes like find out what sits well with your being where it Yes. I was I'm really into love is blind right now. So love is blind right now for those of you that follow me on Instagram, you would have seen me doing some love is blind teaching and examples. And one of them was and it was like one of my favorite fucking moments from the season. So I was watching season five. And Lydia, this woman, they were on holidays, and she was like, oh, please wear the black. Please wear the black board shorts. I want us to match I want to match and he was like, No, I'm not gonna wear them. I'm gonna wear the other ones. And she was testing him. She was like, but I want you to wear the black ones. And he put the other ones on and he just bent his heatstroke. And he just bent down Keystone law and she was going please, please, please. And he just bent down look her in the eyes kiss her on the lips and goes no walked away. And it was just the best ever because even in the face of her being like I want to imagine I don't like those and that doesn't go and and he just goes no, I mean just this really. And it's kind of circles back to when we're talking about the cut like the left and right and like how you can bring it was really playful. Like he wasn't like fuck off. Stop trying to control me. He was just and he wasn't even like that in his energy. He was you can't control me. That's that was he wasn't like don't stop trying. He just he with his energy. And he's transmission it was. I'm a man that's not you're not able to control. You'll understand that soon enough. And you do that with me too. It's like it's not like fuck off. That's so annoying. Uh, it's, no, I'm not going to change. Let's start recording. And like this is how you actually grow and evolve the relationship into something that has the fiery passion that you're looking for without the The walls and this this is like that's a perfectly like No, it's not about making your partner wrong for wanting to change you. It's about like holding and allowing her to rub up against that you're no like let let the waves crash against the shore off. Like let nature do what nature does. This is why spending time in the natural world will attune your body to this dynamic Yeah. I always say when I take men out into nature I'm like you're you think that that's the practices that we do that are going to change you it's actually being out here and having a true device true representation of who you are reflected back to you by the trees the water the earth and the sky. And that I love that example. No. Let's go to the let's go to the pool. Come on. Let's go and have lunch. And yeah, I loved I love it. He's saying like stop. Yeah, like just let the waves crash off against the shore. And it's like yeah, like over time. Like your woman will come to appreciate your No Yeah, even in my like the other day when I said that and you said no, immediately I laughed about it. And I was like, Oh, that was a bit slavery was I want to do to Jade I just didn't come out and say it we were laughing about it and like and again I'd let go of like honored you know, and I was like that's the shirt he's gonna wear I'm not gonna throw a tantrum. It's like I actually fucking love that you're in that shirt because it's you and like, yeah, you believe in that. And this is like the beauty of a relationship your partner is always going to want you to fit into a certain mold based on what they have learned. Yes growing up what they have learned from their their exposure to life. Or what the thing on Instagram I will never ever dress the way that you want me to like that's the truth like there's a part of you that wants me to dress a certain way based on what you think you want a token to me Yeah, and there's so many things you were that I fucking love Yeah, I totally but I also think that like there was there is a version in your head that you would want me to dress like that when that if I did. You actually wouldn't enjoy anyway. I think back in the day I thought I wanted you to wear like boat shoes and I thought I thought that was like an active that vibe. No, I'm not about that at all. Now I love like, or I love I love your style. Yeah, I love your style. Of course, sometimes you just pick up things from the shop that I'm like. I don't love that. Yeah, the Carhartt pants he wrote recently. Yes. All the Carhartt stuff. All of that I'm all about. Yeah, I find it incredibly sexy. Yeah. I love that. And there's parts of me that wants to I would love to try and control or change you know, it's the perfect time there is not one part of me that you would want to change is no, no, no, no, no, you do whatever you want. I'll say yes to everything. That this is the like I think this is what creates the tension creates the friction that creates the fire that keeps the relationship warm and fucking beautifully passionate. And I think to make light of those things when we're like when these things are in the shadows when we're when we're not actually like owning the fact that there's this part of us that wants to change certain things about our partner that means they are in the shadows and that's when these these things this desire to control or change comes out in manipulative slimy ways. Like through passive aggressiveness. Yes. Yeah. manipulation, all of these different things. Where when we can actually just aren't and this is so much a part of the work I do with women like own there's a controlling bitch within you own there's a part of you that wants to wants to and does sometimes manipulate your man, like own all of those parts. And then that you can bring a lightness to them. Because there's not a shame around them like the other day when I told you to change the shirt, and then it was like a fuck, that was slimy as shit. Oh, I'm sorry, where the fucking shot like it was we could joke about it immediately. Yeah, so I just I truly believe there's no woman and then anyone that doesn't have like the shadowy things that want to play out in relationships. So my invitation to you is like, own these things, trying to pretend you're like, like I often say stop trying to pretend as women you're not high maintenance. So you don't want things so you're not trying to control your man. Like just own that. Yeah, especially the controlling piece. That's been so healing for me like, oh, yeah, if I do tell you like go oh, why are you going right? You should have been left. It's like, oh, God, I'm sorry. I just, I'm gonna relax into the car. It's just a part of me that thinks I need control to feel safe. I'm sorry. Can you put your hand on me? And can you tell me that I'm gonna let it control the situation? Once again, like hold that depth of consciousness. Uh yeah, and bring that. I just want to like go circle back. The whole point of this conversation was to talk about the nice guy. And I feel like we've like, done that. But there's a few things that we that I'd like to bring in as like, as men. If you are wanting to start to bring this in, you don't want to swing from being the nice guy to being the asshole. Yeah. So there's no need to go from swinging the pendulum and overcorrect. So, for instance, like I was, I said, yes to everything. Originally, in our relationship, I was always saying, Yes, I was always doing whatever you wanted, I was following you wherever you wanted to go, doing all the things that you wanted to do, because I thought that was what you wanted to feel loved. And initially, it kind of worked. It was like, cool, this works. This, this system works. We're not fighting. You're getting what you want. I'm feeling like I'm getting what I want, I feel like I'm being useful. This is great. However, resentment started to build, there was a feeling of like, ah, if I keep doing this, then she's gonna keep doing there was a there was a very much a dynamic of like, if I keep on doing all the things she needs me to do, then she's going to keep on giving me access to her policy. Keep on like being she's going to be the, you know, the woman that I that I want, eventually, she's going to do the things that I want her to do, because I keep doing the things that she wants to do. But I'm not going to tell her what I want to do. I'm just gonna like, she'll just eventually realize this, you know, she'll just come to come to the table. And it wasn't until I actually realized I was like, fuck, I'm not speaking my desires. And you triggered that in in me by saying, I can't feel you. I can't feel do you have in fact, you even have an opinion on anything, Jacob? Like, you cannot tell me what your thoughts are what you believe about this? Are you just going to agree with what I say? Are you just going to say what you think I want to say? So we can go back to being neutral? Yeah, I think I want to hear Yeah. And that to me is that the nice cars inability to be with discomfort, the NASCAR's inability to own his desires to own his beast. And this like circling back at this, I'm sort of reiterating on some of the stuff like this is because a man's worth is determined by other people. His value is determined by other people. And for me, I believed that I could only ever be loved when I was doing what other people wanted me to do. When I was giving to other people in the way that they wanted it. And I was never actually, I would always put myself last. And this is the shadow of the nice guy is like, he's the he's the hero that will take the shirt off his back and give, but beneath that giving, there's an expectation that he'll get something back. That's the sloppiness of the nice guy. It is manipulative. It's manipulative. As far as like if I do these three chivalrous things, then I'm gonna get to have sex with her. If I do, if I'm if I'm the guy that you know, is really kind and does the things that are all the other guys don't. She's going to choose me. And it's not that we're saying you can't open the door and do all those chivalrous things. But it's like doing that, from a very conscious doing doing that without without need without conditions. And that can only happen when you're solid in yourself, right? The nice guy is like, Okay, I've got to push down these parts of myself, so that I can be that so that she feels safe, and I can get what I want. We do that because you're a fucking man. Full stop. You do that? Because that's what a man does. That's his sacred duty. You don't get a fucking lolly. Because you do that you don't get a sweet treat because you held the door open or because you listen to her feelings. No, fuck that. You do that because you're a man. Full fucking stop. Then you go and you do your work. You you train in the way that you want to you attend, you tend to your garden, you do your practices, you go out and you find the the path of initiation that is next for you. And then you come home and you be a fucking man. And I'm saying this as a man that is developing himself still in this role. I am not by any means perfect. And but I am willing. So when I speak this whoever's listening, whether it's a woman, it's like, Fuck, I want a man like that. Or if it's a man like fuck, Jacob, fuck I do I need to be perfect. No, no, you need to be willing. You need to be willing to make this decision that hey, I'm a fucking man and I'm going to embrace it. And I'm going to see this as a sacred duty, I'm going to do my best to continually expand my capacity to be with what is whilst also moving towards a greater vision that includes something for myself, to feel truly free. Something from my relationships, so I can experience deep intimacy, and something from my legacy. So I can actually bring meaning to the work that I do in this world. And all of those three things, self relationships, and legacy. They're all built on your values. What is your foundation that you've built? Is it aligned with the values that you believe in and that you hold within yourself? Or is it born of I need? It's what she wants. It's what the world wants. For for me, it's what I should be doing. That's a sandy very unsafe firm foundation. Yeah. I'm gonna miss hearing within all of this it's like the the bomb for the nice guy Oh, the salvia the valve the boss soothing balm for the nice guy is like doing the inner work it's like his own personal practice it's it's him, you know so much of the initiates initiatory rite of passage work Yep, of letting go of this idea that it's really it's, it's really like this parallel to the work I do with women, which is letting go of this conditioning that a woman has to stick in a little box and contort herself, to be desired and to be loved and to be a good woman. And it's the same for many of the nice guys, it's like, I have been conditioned to play this nice guy and not not have a strong opinion and not because I might hurt a woman or I might, you know, that's not a safe man. Where it's actually the opposite. Like we said before, a man that can't stand for something. I mean, that doesn't have access to his inner beast. That's, that's not a safe man. Not at all. It's a man that can be controlled. Information can be controlled by external factors, then he is not a safe man. Because when something comes to take what you you love, you won't have the you won't have the fight in you, you won't have the ability to stand to say no. And this is not about going out and being violent. This is about like when you know and this is if anyone ever gets the chance to go and listen to Leon casa, tell a story. Please do. Or anyone like gets to go and listen to a mythopoetic man speak. Please do. remember him saying in the live telling of iron Johnny's like, anything worth its salt, anything that you that you love. One day, you'll have to fight for anything you love one day, you're gonna have to fight for it. Because that's just the nature of the beast. That's just the nature of man, the one day you're gonna have to fight for it. And if you haven't been practicing how to fucking fight, when the fight comes, you're not going to have the capacity to fight for what you love. And this is the path of the openhearted warrior. This is that, you know, I always say the fierce warrior wears no armor, no fucking law, I just think of like the scene in Troy, and the two armies as you're facing across from each other. And to save all of the men's lives, all of the Warriors is the two kings. So you pick your fiercest warrior, and bring him out and we'll let them fight on behalf of the armies. And whoever wins, whichever war, fiercest warrior wins, then the army will join his his side, and the king will renounce his, his throne to the other king. And they can't actually find Achilles because he's still asleep. He's still he's still asleep. It always, like wears Achilles and Achilles. Like, he shows up and he he's not even interested in fighting. That's the best bit he's not he's not he's not fazed by the battle. He's like, you know, I show up, and I'll fight when I'm ready. And then when he's called, he will answer the call right? To fight. And it's so funny that his opponent is huge and massive and carries this big sword and this massive spear. And it's so great. Achilles starts running towards him. And he starts by skipping it almost looks like a fucking dance. And he runs out to meet this guy, and this guy starts throwing spears at him. And the first spear hits security shield, he throws it to the ground. And then he keeps running. And then the second spear flies at him and right at the last second, he dodges it. And it's as if he's moving. It's not even as if he's fighting. It's as if he's dancing. And he runs towards he runs at a pace that is feverish, with fierce belief in who he is. And he runs towards this mountain of a man that any other man would be terrified to face. And as he runs, he runs and he leaps towards him. And he leaps and he dodges a swing of this guy's sword jumps up, grabs you on the shoulder and just stubs his sword into the neck of this guy, and then pulls it out, sort of runs, skids to a stop and like, turns around and looks at him and just watches this man like turn around. Take like a moment to blink and then just fall and die. And I'm like, That's the fucking energies. That's what I'm here for. I'm here to cultivate that kind of belief in myself. I'm not gonna have to, like fight someone to the death for it. But I'm gonna go out and initiate myself. So I have the capacity for that. I'm gonna go and train jujitsu for the next 10 years and become a black belt. And I'm gonna do that I'm gonna go out and do the vision quests every year. I'm gonna go and do the ceremonies that initiate me spiritually, physically and emotionally into something that is unfuck winnable. And these days like, it might not ever be physical combat, no, this is more building up the energetic or nervous system capacity. Yes, energetic capacity to face any threats. And this can be that I was going to bring this example in before and I can't remember exactly where I think it was on, you're talking about being decapitated and things like that. Yeah. But like the threat might be as a man, like, you have a controlling mother, and your mother is trying to kind of like, weave her way into your family. Maybe you have kids, and it's just like, your wife's uncomfortable with that, or like, she wants you to kind of claim that hey, like, I'm, I'm the woman of this house. I don't need your mother, like, you know, micromanaging everything being an opinion on everything. Yes. And, you know, this is such a common thing. We've seen this multiple, multiple times. This threat there is your mother. Yes, like and this doesn't mean you can't love your mother. But the battle, or the thing to stand up for is to stand to stand up in that moment. And to have enough of a spine to to set the boundaries for your family and to protect your family and to protect your woman. Right. So often, it's like, no, but that would hurt her feelings. And I don't know. It's okay. She means well, we're it's like, if you're a woman is saying this is making me uncomfortable. And I would prefer to have boundaries in the home or whatever it might be like, your job is to be a voice for that and to advocate for your family. And that's the, that's the modern day kind of moments that we're talking about instead of where, where a woman is not turned on or doesn't trust the nice guy. In those moments, the nice guy is not going to have a conversation with his mother, the nice guy is going to avoid conflict at all costs. And he's going to have a woman that doesn't trust him and feels unsafe or feel super resentful. And that creates more tension in the home and between relationships. Like that's a messiest situation than a man that just goes, I'm gonna have the conversation, even if it's uncomfortable. I'm gonna fucking Yeah, protect my family. That is such my fan that is such a fucking boss move for a man to do is like, Hey, listen, you're my family. Now. You are my priority. I remember. And this was, um, this is a beautiful moment. And it was really funny. Like, how emotional this makes me but it's beautiful. It's like, I remember when I was going through a really tough time. And this is gonna be great. I'm a Valentine. This makes sense. Well, I went home last weekend. You ready for me to share? You want this? You ready for me to open my heart to you. I remember when I was like, really going through like the wrestle of like really wanting to step the fuck up in our relationship and really wanting to like claim my place as a, as a business owner as a men's coach, and I want to have a real fucking goal with this. And I remember, like sharing that with my dad. And I was like, I just want to, like, I want to marry Meg, I want like, ask me to marry me soon. I'm like, I really just, I really just want to, I really just want to do well, I want to I want to I want to make my mark on the world. And I remember him just being like, well, you just have to make that decision, right? Because I can't make it for you. And in that moment, I was looking for him to like, Mother me and he wouldn't. And he just said, Listen, I can't make that decision for you. You have to make it if you want to marry Marissa, you got to go and do your work, go and do your work. I'm interesting. Like, oh, thank you. Like he gave me permission. In a way that didn't stop me from going after what I wanted. And I remember him saying, Listen, I can't you know, you don't live here anymore. I'm not. I don't, I don't. You don't belong to me. He said, I'm I'm here. Your mom's might your mum's my priority. Now I'm here to do stuff with her look after this house. If you want to come back and spend some time. You know, door's always open, but that's the decision that you have to make. And I remember breaking down and crying and feeling really emotional. And I was like, fuck, I do want this. I do want my own family. I do want to be the man of the house. I do want what you've got to a degree. I want my own family. I want my own place of residence where I tend to the yard and fix things and change the oil in the cars in the garage. I want this I want this and I went to a men's retreat. Men's well being and we got to actually sit with our own death with perverse Did you you haven't met pravasi Yet he's a he's a dF D man he and I had the beautiful, beautiful three hour conversation one night, but in that I got to draw what what what I wanted for my life. And I drew a river. I drew tents. I drew a fire and I drew trees and I drew this big long table. And what I did was I just drew what what What I had as a kid, like I drew what I was gifted as a child is freedom, this free range life. And it was really funny that the table, my dad built it with his maiden daymo out at the river, like we had this campground that we'd go to every year. And they built a table. And it would just stay there. And every year, we'd come back and we put our tents up next to the river, and I go fishing, and we'd all cook on the fire. And we'd all put like, prepare our food up on this table. And yeah, what I was wanting was just this, what I was wanting was what I received, what I was wanting to create for my life was what I received. But I had to choose it right, I had to choose it for myself. And it's funny, you know, the way that there's symbols and the way that my dad does life that really has, like this texture of meaning without him having to explain it. Like, I've got to chop it, he made chopping boards from that table, because that table, the property got sold, we couldn't go camping there anymore. So dad went down and got that table, brought it home. And he made chopping boards for all of us kids. So with a chopping board that's made from that table. And I'm just like, wow, like I carry that carry that that desire with me. And I'm creating that now and the way that we go camping and we go to creeks and rivers, and we do that and we have kids around us and yeah, I just realized and then I went I went home on the weekend, like we were sitting down in the garage and dad and I was stripping all of this copper wire or the plastic off because he was taking it to to recycle it and get paid good money for this copper. And he just said how she had the good night I like I was like it felt like this full circle moment of like, Oh, like that conversation that we had the so long ago. And like me not knowing who I was. And going on this journey. I was able to like sit in the garage and not feel wobbled. I felt like I was like two men rather than like this child like asking his dad's permission for help. until like, hey, like give me let me know it's gonna be okay, let me know that I'm not fucking mad for wanting what I want. And yeah, we were stripping it. He's like, you're good. You had good I was like, I'm so fucking good Dad, look, I'm fucking happy to be here. I got there's no place I'd rather be like I am in a good fucking place. And all of that. Like, I'm really excited to share some footage from the gathering of men too, because I got to invite my dad into seeing me as the powerful man that he fucking gave me permission to be by not mothering me by not pandering to my emotional chaos and saying go out and fucking get it son. And I think so many men are looking for that fucking permission to go and fucking get it go and become a man. And many men are still struggling because they're there in relationships where they're trying to please their mother. And this is the fucking tragedy of the nice guy is that he's living a life where he's constantly trying to please his mother and not upset his dad by going by creating his own kingdom. Oh, fuck, that was intense for me just then. That was really beautiful. Yeah, that was brought up a lot. It's crazy how my life makes so much more sense when I speak about it. Like it's so beautiful to self reflect and externally process here on this microphone with you my life. But yeah, I truly believe that everyone has like, and this is i i say this and I kind of want to finish here because I've got it. I've got to end I've got something else to do. I've got to go and female your fucking man. live up to your responsibility. I believe every area and this is me and my little brother love Matthew McConaughey. And we love his book greenlights to great storytelling you for any men that want to listen to it. It's great on Audible, but I believe every man has to eventually break up with his mum and punch his dad in the face. Do you mean literally and I mean that metaphorically. I mean, like you're not actually in a relationship with your mom, but you kind of are and need to stop making out with your mom. And you need to punch your dad in the face. What is the what is the punching it out in the failure? You need to like fight fight for the fight for your right and it's not really punching, but you need to like say, Hey, listen, I'm a fucking man now or you need to like have a conversation and be vulnerable with him. Expose yourself to the point where he's like, go and get what's yours? No, I didn't punch my dad in the face was said hey, I want to I want to do this and he was like, going fuck and do it then. I don't need to and he's like, I'm not you and he kind of gave me the blessing to go fuck up. And I've done stuff that he hasn't agreed with. I go and do things that he doesn't that aren't his values, but they're mine. So now, like I said, stripping out copper. I went home to go and sit on the river and do mushrooms and be in my spiritual practice. And I had a man it was a fun time. We're like, I'm doing the ceremony. Like we don't need to do mushrooms on the land. You just need to strip copper wire in the shed. But it was it was like we're doing we're peeling back the layers right of this copper. We're peeling back the plastic layers to get to the value in the middle. And like as we did it, we kind of we found our flow where we've had this All of this copper in the short lengths and we, we just naturally started to synchronize, we had this flow that just we didn't have to say anything, we just started to do it. And then all of a sudden we had this flow where we do with strip this, this part of it, and then we change that as he was changing the, the blade on the standing off, I would then go and pick up all of that, and I'd put it in the bin. And then when he was in, then by the time that we'd strip the the inner layer off, and then we'd get the valuable thing on the inside. So everything is just a peeling back of the layers. Life isn't medicine, life is a medicine journey. That is That is true. I think, you know, we've done a lot of medicine work, and I love medicine work. And yet, and this is same thing for self development. It's like, yes, all of that work is powerful. But life is the fucking ceremony. Oh, like hiding in the medicine ceremony and avoiding the conversation you need to be having with your father. You're not actually doing the work and life like relationships, how you navigate relationships in your life. That's the ultimate ceremony. And medicine work, often self development or embodiment work can give you the blueprint and can support you to really feel your capacity for life. But then you've got to go fucking live it, you've got to choose, you can't bypass your way in and out of the conversations that need to be hard and the vulnerability that needs to be shown. And that some of like, like I think for both of us is gonna make me cry now. Like, I love that quote around like the quality of your life is the quality of your relationships determined by the quality. Yeah. The quality of relationships, determines the quality of your life. And I think I look around at our life. And I'm like, Yeah, I really fucking believe that to be true. And a huge part of that is though, that we've done a lot of the work on ourselves on our own relationship. And we we are ruthlessly devoted to leaning into the conversations that need to be have had around us and yeah, bringing our full selves not shying away from you don't separate life, no ceremony. No, we don't go all those people don't get it or they're not spiritual. And I'm just gonna go with my medicine community where I feel safe. It's like to it's yes, this. There's truth in that sometimes when you don't feel safe in relationships, and you can you know, set boundaries. I've I've had practices of that lately. Yeah. But also, it's like, you know, Can Can you see life as the ceremony? Can you say can you really lean in and, and, and we have Yeah, we bring we bring that like, we own that, like our families like we bring them in. We don't hide that. We had like, like eating out at a wedding. Like I created a spot show. We had a circular design for our ceremony. I love summer like my family like my mom like family friends. I didn't even know half the stuff that went on. But that was just the best ceremony move into it. I felt it. Yeah, it really felt and that's why I became a celebrant to like, I became a registered marriage celebrant which is crazy because I was like, I want to create ceremonies like this for others. So people feel the love that you share. Yeah. And my aunt, she was crying to me. She's like, all I saw was this little boy playing with his Lego just he was just and I'm like, what, that's what you got from she's like, oh, like she saw the part of me that hadn't lost my spark my child. She saw that boy with the golden ball. Still there. I hadn't lost. Yeah, I hadn't lost my or I'd reclaimed my, my innocence in my play and my love and my spirit. Like my connection to spirit. I wasn't hiding that I wasn't trying to be something I was just being me. I think that's such a valuable thing that you can bring with consciousness with respect with maturity as you walk this path of, of manhood. Oh, oh, what an episode. This has been fun. I love telling stories. I love this. This is my favorite. This has been my favorite podcast. Yeah, it was delicious. Okay, we love you. Bless up lovers. I'll see you next week. See you next week. Yo, yo, yo, thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of sex, love and everything in between. Now if you'd like to stay connected with Megan, I You can head on over to Instagram and follow me at the Jacob O'Neill and where can people find you lover at the dot mag dot o amazing and yeah, guys, check out the show notes for all the information in regards to what we've got coming up. And yeah, we're super super grateful that you guys for taking the time to listen to this podcast. If you do have any topics or any questions, like I said, hit us up on Instagram and we'll see what we can do. Apart from that have a beautiful, beautiful rest of your day. Thanks for being here. Big Big Love.